I just got some in the mail and I am liking them. (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aircore_nano_dyneema_spectra_guyline_cord_50_ft.ht ml)
I also have the niteize figure-nines (http://niteize.com/productdetail.php?category_id=29&product_id=136) and I think these nanos will be better.

i've bought & put to use two of the other guy line kits w/ the same line adjusters.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aircore_pro_dyneema_spectra_guyline_cord_50_ft.htm l
i like that set. works great. my only complaint is that in really high winds the line adjusters can be forced to slip. but it's been rare when that happened. so it's not much of a complaint.
it's a strong, light weight guy line set.

TeeDee, were you the guy who originally found those and posted them on HQ? If so, huge thanks. I love those things!

You could put a bite in the guyline. That would allow you to make it shorter than half.

No - I think Turk was the first to find them and mention them. I bought the large variety then and reported my use there. Have since purchased the small variety also. Use the small for guylines and the large for the ridgeline on my tarp.

Now if there was a Figure 9 rated the same as the CAMP Nano wire carabiner and the same weight (we can always dream :D ), I'd drop the ring buckle quick and switch to that - they are a way cool device.

Interesting...I use the small size on my tarp ridge and just tautline hitches on my side tie-outs. A high-rated Figure 9 would be pretty cool...I don't know if I'd go away from straps, though. I don't like having to use separate tree huggers.

Have you tried the CC buckles? They're heavier than rings, but I really like them. I rank their speed and ease of use right up there with the Figure 9's. I haven't done much testing with the rings though, so I can't really compare.

when i use the micro-tentioners on my tarp guy lines, i form a clove hitch & insert the stake where i want it, & put the stake in the ground.
i just use the micro-tentioners for tightening the tarp as needed, not shortening the line.
the extra, un-used line is draped over & around the stake to help make it more visible when i'm moving around camp.

when i use the micro-tentioners on my tarp guy lines, i form a clove hitch & insert the stake where i want it, & put the stake in the ground.
i just use the micro-tentioners for tightening the tarp as needed, not shortening the line.
the extra, un-used line is draped over & around the stake to help make it more visible when i'm moving around camp.

See that is thinking outside of the box. I like that.

youngblood showed me the way he uses stakes & guy lines using the clove line hitch last year at the SEHHA, hot springs camp out.
at first i thought it would be more than i care to mess w/ if i'm tired & cold, but after i practiced forming the clove line hitch & then inserting the stake a few times, it became easy.
matter of fact... it's so easy... a cave man could do it:eek:
you can put the stake any where on the guy line you need to, just like that.
and when breaking camp, i slide the stake out of the hitch & it cleans the dirt off the stake in one motion.

A clove hitch can be really easy to tie. Make two loops the second one should go under he first one. Insert your stake. Very easy!

Here (http://www.ray-way.com/tarp-nettent/butterfly/index.shtml), is a bit more complicated version. The two loops are the clove hitch and you can stop there.

No - I looked at them on the CC web site when JJ posted about them, but wasn't too sure about using them. Couldn't get a real clear picture of them from the web site, then somebody posted about getting them from another site. That site had a much better picture. I pull my HH suspension really tight. I think JJ was using a DIY at the time with a lot of sag. The CC doesn't have a structural ridgeline and is hung with a lot of sag also. The sag would make using the CC buckles easy, especially loosening them. I was concerned that I might pull the HH suspension tight and have to cut the line or webbing to loosen the CC buckle. So I decided to wait for others to report on their use with the HH. Then I thought to use the ring buckle and haven't considered anything else since.

I think you are right on about having the tree huggers and suspension all in one. I hadn't thought of that when I posted about wanting a high rated Figure 9. Still, if they made one a price comparable to the CAMP Wire Nano, I think I'd buy 1 or 2 just to experiment.

I guess I should've posted something about the tension issue before now. Jeff said he had problems with the buckles binding under high tension. Like you, I always pull my HH really tight, so I was worried about that.

The buckles do bind under a lot of tension, but you can get around it with no hassle at all. When you're adjusting when you first hang, leave the suspension a little loose. Once you've got it where you want it, THEN crank down on the straps. After you've hung overnight, things will loosen up enough that the buckles don't bind anymore. Simple.

After reading the issues and solutions that have been reported with the ring system, I think I'll stick with my buckles. They're a complete no-brainer. No slippage, no worrying about attachment, no alignment concerns. I'll probably give the rings another try, but only in the interest of science :p

Yeah - the buckles are only hard to undo if you try to remove them right after you tighten them. After you get in for a few minutes, it's loose enough to undo pretty easily.

I haven't had any slippage with the rings, and I don't have to worry at all about not being able to loosen it if I want to change sites or something.

Six of one, half-dozen of the other...I'd say they both work fine.

Probably worth testing...the buckles are pretty cheap and you could use the same webbing you use with the rings.

After reading the issues and solutions that have been reported with the ring system, I think I'll stick with my buckles. They're a complete no-brainer. No slippage, no worrying about attachment, no alignment concerns. I'll probably give the rings another try, but only in the interest of science :p

After my first round of troubles with the rings, I have not had anymore problems. I'd reccomend them to you, if only to serve the interest of science.

(first round of trouble being some slippage, due to aforementioned poor alignment.)

i've spent a little time w/ both the cc buckles & the ring buckles now & my favor goes w/ the ring buckles.
not that the cc buckles are bad, but the two main concerns i have w/ them are...
1) they are more difficult to loosen. this becomes even worse when you use them at home & the same section of webbing is held in the buckles night after night. it doesn't take long until the stiff webbing becomes soft from stress & it's harder to push soft webbing back through the cc buckle than stiff webbing.
of course that's going to vary from one type webbing to another, and on the trail you're not as likely to end up w/ the buckle in the same place on the webbing as often.
2) i believe there is obviously a greater force in a small, sharp bend of the webbing w/ the cc buckles than the ring buckles.
before i got more of the better grade 1" webbing from speer, i was using the 1" wal-mart polyester webbing which tends to be of less dependable quality, & it actually tore at the cc buckle.
so these two things cause me to think that in the long run, the ring buckles are going to be not only easier to use, but easier on the webbing. ...tim

Has anyone ever tried sinching the hammock tight using the ring buckle and then tying a slip knot behind the rings to keep the webbing from slipping?

I almost did that...but then I figured that if I had a slip knot right against the rings, and the webbing slipped, it would bind the knot into the rings.

So now I just roll up the extra webbing and stuff it inside the biner...that keeps everything straight enough. If there isn't enough, you can also put a loose half-hitch up on the webbing...just tight enough to hold it straight. Same thing as the slip knot you're talking about, I guess...just not right against the rings.

But yeah - it works.

Has anyone ever tried sinching the hammock tight using the ring buckle and then tying a slip knot behind the rings to keep the webbing from slipping?
yes. i do that when ever i have slipping for what ever reasons, & it works perfectly.
no more slipping & release is a simple tug.
now i usually do it just as a precaution, even if i don't pull the slip knot tight.

I've tried the rings and had slipping so I tied a slip knot right above the rings and it held fine. The knot did not slide into the rings for me.

yes. i do that when ever i have slipping for what ever reasons, & it works perfectly.
no more slipping & release is a simple tug.
now i usually do it just as a precaution, even if i don't pull the slip knot tight.

HEY... looks like i've hit the big 1k post!!! watch out BB, i'm right behind you:rolleyes:

HEY... looks like i've hit the big 1k post!!! watch out BB, i'm right behind you:rolleyes:

Yeah, but I'm closer to Jeff than you are to me, now :D So watch out Jeff!

To get this back on track a bit. I hope to use these next weekend. I should have my MacCat clone done by then. I am making two version a deluxe version and a micro version. I will be able to test them out then. I will make sure I take pics. I will also be testing my home made rolled hammock too, along with the GG pad. This will be one experimental weekend. I am thinking of going to Shenandoah, but I may just make due with Pocahontas (it is much closer). It will most likely be a 3 nighter.

TEEDEE...

How many tarp tie outs do you have? You use Fig 9's on all of them?

(I have 4 points to tie out... is that worth the weight?)

TEEDEE...

How many tarp tie outs do you have? You use Fig 9's on all of them?

(I have 4 points to tie out... is that worth the weight?)

All of them?

Well on my DIY tarp, 10' x 10', I have 5 tie outs on each grounded side (ends, middle and quarter length points) and 2 on the slanted sides - I can pull the slanted sides partially or fully closed to close off around the hammock when needed - and then the 2 ridge line tie outs. I use the Figure 9's on ALL of the grounded tie outs. I put 1/8" shock cording on all grounded tie outs - like it better than the elastic tubing never had the shock cording go bad yet - just a simple loop through the webbing loops, used waxed nylon string to whip the loops - tie off to the shock cording. I carry way more small Figure 9s than is probably necessary, but then their weight is negligible and they are just SOOOOO CONVENIENT and practically indestructable. I need 10 small Figure 9s. I know I'm carrying a few more than that, cannot remember exactly how many.

For the ridge line, I use 50' of 1/8" Spyderline. Way more rating and length than is needed, but then I have 50' of 1200 lb rated cord when needed elsewhere and only 0.2 oz. I use a continuous tarp ridge line, tree to tree. Tarp under the ridge line. Bowline on one end of cord, micro carabiner clipped in the bowline, wrap tree and clip cord, just like the hammock webbing, wrap second tree and haul tight with Figure 9 ( I use the large Figure 9 for the ridge line, maybe not strictly needed, but then I have the added 100 lb rating when needed elsewhere also - thinking of switching to the Hitchcraft mini here for the 250 lb rating which will then be available elsewhere also - not too sure though since the Hitchcraft mini doesn't hold too well with 1/8" line under load), pull the ridge line as tight as I can possibly pull and I can pull quite a bit with the 3:1 advantage of the Figure 9 - another advantage of the 1200 lb rating, not worried about snapping the line. I have 2 Prussik loops on the cord, clip the tarp ridge line tie outs to the Prussiks, slide Prussiks to center and tension tarp, stake and tie.

Simple.

Just wondering...what good does a ridgeline do on TOP of the tarp? It sounds like it might make adjustment easier, but does it serve any other purpose? Doesn't seem like it would provide much structure to the tarp itself, and you certainly can't hang gear from it...

All of them?

Well on my DIY tarp, 10' x 10', I have 5 tie outs on each grounded side (ends, middle and quarter length points) and 2 on the slanted sides - I can pull the slanted sides partially or fully closed to close off around the hammock when needed - and then the 2 ridge line tie outs. I use the Figure 9's on ALL of the grounded tie outs. I put 1/8" shock cording on all grounded tie outs - like it better than the elastic tubing never had the shock cording go bad yet - just a simple loop through the webbing loops, used waxed nylon string to whip the loops - tie off to the shock cording. I carry way more small Figure 9s than is probably necessary, but then their weight is negligible and they are just SOOOOO CONVENIENT and practically indestructable. I need 10 small Figure 9s. I know I'm carrying a few more than that, cannot remember exactly how many.

For the ridge line, I use 50' of 1/8" Spyderline. Way more rating and length than is needed, but then I have 50' of 1200 lb rated cord when needed elsewhere and only 0.2 oz. I use a continuous tarp ridge line, tree to tree. Tarp under the ridge line. Bowline on one end of cord, micro carabiner clipped in the bowline, wrap tree and clip cord, just like the hammock webbing, wrap second tree and haul tight with Figure 9 ( I use the large Figure 9 for the ridge line, maybe not strictly needed, but then I have the added 100 lb rating when needed elsewhere also - thinking of switching to the Hitchcraft mini here for the 250 lb rating which will then be available elsewhere also - not too sure though since the Hitchcraft mini doesn't hold too well with 1/8" line under load), pull the ridge line as tight as I can possibly pull and I can pull quite a bit with the 3:1 advantage of the Figure 9 - another advantage of the 1200 lb rating, not worried about snapping the line. I have 2 Prussik loops on the cord, clip the tarp ridge line tie outs to the Prussiks, slide Prussiks to center and tension tarp, stake and tie.

Simple.

Hey TeeDee,
That's a lot to absorb. If you have access to a digital camera, can you post some pics?
Thanks,
Michael

Just wondering...what good does a ridgeline do on TOP of the tarp? It sounds like it might make adjustment easier, but does it serve any other purpose? Doesn't seem like it would provide much structure to the tarp itself, and you certainly can't hang gear from it...

It may have more other uses under the tarp, but as slowhike has also pointed out on another thread, water tends to run down the ridge line and drip down on whatever is under the tarp - not a lot of fun. Though a simple solution for that is to use drip strings. If you use drip strings, then under the tarp is more practical for other uses. I don't always want to add the drip strings and when I don't, the tarp goes underneath the cord. Either way is okay for me since I don't tend to hang things from the tarp ridge line cord under the tarp anyway, at least when the hammock is hung under the tarp. If the tarp is hung low and close to the hammock, there isn't much room to do so and I have the hammock structural ridge line for that anyway.

I use the ridge line cord from tree to tree as it is less hassle for me to run the line and then clip the tarp to the Prussik loops, if I have the tarp in a stuff sack. Usually, I just have the tarp and ridge line cord in snake skins I made from chiffon (noseeum netting is more expensive - I can get chiffon locally - no shipping), hang just as you would the hammock in snake skins and be done with it. The Prussiks make centering or putting the tarp where ever I want between the trees a trivial exercise. Cannot use the Prussiks with separate cords on each end of the tarp and the separate cords just means more finagling back and forth getting the tarp positioned and tensioned. At least I found that was true for me - I always had a heck of a time eyeballing where I wanted the first end and then had to partially tension the second end and then more on the first end and then the second end. If I was lucky, I only had maybe one iteration of that, if not I could go 3, 4 (rarely) or 5 (more rarely) times getting it just where I wanted it. Also, with separate cords on each end, I have 2 cords to keep track of. With the ridge line from tree to tree, just the one, real long cord. Harder for me to forget or misplace a 50' hank of line.

Hey TeeDee,
That's a lot to absorb. If you have access to a digital camera, can you post some pics?
Thanks,
Michael

I'll try, but my digital camera is an el cheapo, $20 key ring wonder. I bought a Leica M4 with a lot of accessories decades back when I had the chance at a buy that was impossible to justify passing up and simply cannot justify the expense of a good or decent digital. Not when the Leica is so much better than any digital on the market. Yeah - I pay more in film, but then film will still be around and usable and viewable when all of those digital pictures have been wiped from hard discs and there are no longer any readers for all of those picture CDs. :rolleyes:

I think it's an interesting idea for sure. What do you use for your prusiks? Must be pretty small to grip that 1/8" Spyderline. I'm guessing the prusiks hold pretty well, too? I like a lot of tension on my tarp, so that'd be a concern for me.

I think it's an interesting idea for sure. What do you use for your prusiks? Must be pretty small to grip that 1/8" Spyderline. I'm guessing the prusiks hold pretty well, too? I like a lot of tension on my tarp, so that'd be a concern for me.

I pull the Prussiks enough that sometimes I worry about the integrity of the tarp. :D It's a slight struggle sliding the Prussik loops to loosen the tarp, I have pulled so hard. They really grip. I pull a little easier when I hang in the diamond configuration since I am pulling across the center line seam then.The center line seam is the tarp ridge line when hung in the A-frame configuration. I usually use the later, since a 14+ foot tarp ridge line in the diamond configuration is more than I really need. I used a felled seam for the strength.

For the Prussik loops, I use either the BPL guy line cord, the yellow dyneema stuff, or Mountain Laurel Designs Dacron guy line cord. I bought 200 ft for $20.00 from MLD a few months back. Good bargain. Either works real well.

Cool...I may try that sometime. I usually carry about 50' of cord for a backup anyway, so may as well put it to use! Always go with multipurpose :D

Yeah - I was hanging clothes on a clothes line one day and all of sudden it hit me - hanging the tarp is like hanging clothes on a clothes line, just think of the Prussik loops as clothes pins.

I had the thought: if someone told me to hang clothes by tying a cord to one clothes pole and then tying the other end of the cord to a single clothing piece and then tying another cord on the other end of the clothing and the other end of the second cord to the second clothes pole (imagine stringing multiple pieces of clothes along separated by multiple cords :D ) I would think they were CRAZY.

Well I said to myself that's exactly what you have been doing with your tarp, you idiot. Then I thought of Prussiks as clothes pins.

You can get inspiration in the oddest ways. Good thing we don't use a clothes dryer :rolleyes: or I'd still be be doing it the old crazy way or maybe thinking of ways to hang my tarp with a clothes dryer :D

i still believe using a separate line on each end of the ridge line is the most practical way to hang a tarp.
no real reason to have that extra length of line across the tarp.
it's not needed for strength, & if you need a line underneath to hang stuff from, it's best done a different way to avoid the drips talked about earlier....tim

i still believe using a separate line on each end of the ridge line is the most practical way to hang a tarp.
no real reason to have that extra length of line across the tarp.
it's not needed for strength, & if you need a line underneath to hang stuff from, it's best done a different way to avoid the drips talked about earlier....tim

I'm not trying to convince you one way or another - hang in the way that suits you and works the best for you. :D