zipper basics

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10-19-2007, 19:56
slowhike

zipper basics

i've been looking at zippers both on line & locally. not finding what i want local.

turns out there's a fair amount to learn & pay attention to in zipper terminology. maybe this should lead to an article.

i'll start with a few things i picked up & then ask for corrections & suggestions.

two basic types... coil & tooth
the length of coil or tooth is referred to as the "chain".

the chain may be "separating" (like a full zip jacket) or "non-separating" (like the short zipper on a pull over).
if both ends are sewn together (like a pocket) it may be referred to as "closed on both ends".

they seem to come in sizes 2.5 to 10, with 10 being the biggest.
one site gives as a general rule that #5 is used on clothing & #7 & #8 on gear (tents & sleeping bags).

the "slider" is the piece that slides along separating or joining the chain.
the slider may be "locking" or "non-locking".

a zipper can have two sliders so it can be unzipped from either end. this is called a "two way zipper".

the "tab" or "pull tab" is the flat piece that you grab & pull the slider with.
most zippers have a "single tab" but if the clothing is reversible or the gear is opened & closed from both sides (like a tent or sleeping bag) it may have a "double tab".
"i think"... that a reversible tab is one that can follow a loop around the slider from one side to the other. this would be fine on a reversible jacket, but would not be practical on a tent or sleeping bag.

please feel free to add & correct.

now what led me to all this is an upcoming project, a travel pod.
it will have one long zipper on top from above the head to below the feet.
i have that zipper (recovered from a fleece bag).

it will also have a shorter zipper on each side that goes from the top of the long zipper down to just below the top of the hammock sides.

this will allow a large triangle of fabric on one or both sides to drop down as a door.

the shorter zippers will probably be at least 20", but shorter than 30".
i have decided to use a two way zipper so i can reach out the bottom with out opening it very far.
these zippers will be non-separating so a longer zipper can be shortened if needed.

the 3 sites i have found zippers that may work on are...
outdoor wilderness fabrics (OWF).
they have a two way separating, #8, 75", double tab, non locking, but they are $11.63 ea.

the rain shed has several possibilities including (under miscellaneous zippers) a #8, tooth, two way, 30" for $3.70.

ragged mountain (see fabric & repair) has several also. they say "double slider" but don't say "double tab" (as in a pull tab on both sides of the slider).

question #1...does a double slider always have a double tab?

#2... i'm thinking at least one of you guys used the continuous zipper (by the foot), but it seems that i remember you talking about it being a challenge to put it together. how was it???
thanks. ...tim
10-19-2007, 20:11
NCPatrick

Not sure about question 1.

I've used continuous zipper and it came altogether. All I needed to do was put the pulls on, which is not all that tricky, (although it seems sometimes like having a 3rd hand to help out would be great).

I get all my zippers from Quest Outfitters, and they are great about answering any zipper questions you might have.
10-19-2007, 20:26
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPatrick

Not sure about question 1.

I've used continuous zipper and it came altogether. All I needed to do was put the pulls on, which is not all that tricky, (although it seems sometimes like having a 3rd hand to help out would be great).

I get all my zippers from Quest Outfitters, and they are great about answering any zipper questions you might have.

as long as the two way non-separating zippers have a pull tab on both sides, they have good choices & good prices too.
i may give them a call monday.

did you buy the coil or tooth? what size?
10-19-2007, 20:29
NCPatrick

I have bought coil zipper(s) in sizes #3 and #5. Either one is a good choice. The #3 is what you would expect with most camping equipment, imo. The #5 seems a bit heavy duty, which is cool if you like heavy duty looking stuff...

I usually sew some grosgrain across the ends to make the zipper non-separating, but that's just a strange quirk of mine...
10-19-2007, 20:36
GREEN THERAPY

Good post .... You have the terms correct. I have been using zippers to attach one side of the bug net to the hammock body for a long while. The unfortunate part is I can't recall exactly what size it is but think its a number 5. I will phone the upholstery shop I bought it from and get the actual size on monday when they are open again. It is a zipper that comes on a roll and they cut the zipper in 8' lengths for me. The type of zipper is a plastic tooth zipper and I buy a non locking pull with tabs on both sides. It is a non seperating zipper so I can't unzipp the bug net and remove it, but can unzipp and have it hanging over the ridge line for a more open feeling.

The first few times I tried to put it together I had problems untill I figured out there is a right side and a wrong side when installing the pull. If using the pull turned the wrong side out the design of the zipper won't allow the zipper to clear the teeth. After I figured that out it is a snap. The pull is a non locking style which works great as once you start to open it pressure on the seperated sides of the zipper will cause it to open further.

If you have an upholstery shop in your area go and talk to them as they can be a handy and cheap source of materials, not just zippers. There is a bit of a learning curve in installing the first one but it gets easier quickly.
10-19-2007, 21:20
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPatrick

I have bought coil zipper(s) in sizes #3 and #5. Either one is a good choice. The #3 is what you would expect with most camping equipment, imo. The #5 seems a bit heavy duty, which is cool if you like heavy duty looking stuff...

I usually sew some grosgrain across the ends to make the zipper non-separating, but that's just a strange quirk of mine...

thanks. i was thinking i would go w/ a #5 but now i think i'll get a #3.
10-19-2007, 21:23
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREEN THERAPY

Good post .... You have the terms correct. I have been using zippers to attach one side of the bug net to the hammock body for a long while. The unfortunate part is I can't recall exactly what size it is but think its a number 5. I will phone the upholstery shop I bought it from and get the actual size on monday when they are open again. It is a zipper that comes on a roll and they cut the zipper in 8' lengths for me. The type of zipper is a plastic tooth zipper and I buy a non locking pull with tabs on both sides. It is a non seperating zipper so I can't unzipp the bug net and remove it, but can unzipp and have it hanging over the ridge line for a more open feeling.

The first few times I tried to put it together I had problems untill I figured out there is a right side and a wrong side when installing the pull. If using the pull turned the wrong side out the design of the zipper won't allow the zipper to clear the teeth. After I figured that out it is a snap. The pull is a non locking style which works great as once you start to open it pressure on the seperated sides of the zipper will cause it to open further.

If you have an upholstery shop in your area go and talk to them as they can be a handy and cheap source of materials, not just zippers. There is a bit of a learning curve in installing the first one but it gets easier quickly.

thanks green therapy. if i get the continuous chain & sliders (DIY), i'll be sure to pay attention to the pulls.
10-21-2007, 14:54
warbonnetguy

slowhike. if it will be closed on one end or closed on two ends, you don't need to spend extra on 2 way seperating zipper. all you need to do is get continuous coil zip tape. make sure it's coil not tooth. get #3 size, they are awesome. light too. haven't tried the 2.5.

just get the continuous coil and insert pulls from each end going towards eachother. get the double pulls (one "handle" on each side of the zipper pulls) so it can be opened from the outside or inside. some zip stops might be useful too. also go for the ykk brand. getting continuous coil zip tape is alot cheaper too, and you can get the exact amount you need.

"seperating" just means that the two sides of the zipper completly "seperate" from one another, like on a jacket, which has those little end pieces at the bottom that you slide into oneanother before you can zip. you can't install them which is why you can't use continuous coil, but if at least one end of the zipper stays connected, continuous coil can be used. "two way" just means they already put two pulls on there for you. if you are using cont. coil, you can make it two-way just by putting two pulls on there yourself (in the right directions). if it is seperating zipper, it has those little insert pieces on there, and you cannot add a pull, they have to be pre installed because of those insert pieces.

also, the #'s as in #3, correlate to how wide the zipper teeth are in terms of millimeters.
10-21-2007, 15:16
slowhike

yep, it will be closed on one end (bottom).
i believe the continuous zipper will be the best way to go.
and it seems that the coil would be a slightly better choice over molded tooth.

in one sites comments on zippers i read that the coil works more smoothly so i figure that will make opening & closing easyer.
but i'm hoping to see what the outdoor gear makers (especially the lightweight gear makers) consider the most reliable & trouble free.
10-21-2007, 15:33
warbonnetguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhike

yep, it will be closed on one end (bottom).
i believe the continuous zipper will be the best way to go.
and it seems that the coil would be a slightly better choice over molded tooth.

in one sites comments on zippers i read that the coil works more smoothly so i figure that will make opening & closing easyer.
but i'm hoping to see what the outdoor gear makers (especially the lightweight gear makers) consider the most reliable & trouble free.

read what stevenson warmlite thinks about zippers here:http://www.warmlite.com/bags.htm about 1/3 down the page
10-21-2007, 15:47
slowhike

Quote:

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

read what stevenson warmlite thinks about zippers here:http://www.warmlite.com/bags.htm about 1/3 down the page

good point. seems the smaller teeth are less likely to snag the fabric.
and they seem to have a good track record for them.
10-22-2007, 07:23
kohburn

something that caught my eye on that site...

Quote:

Both Down and wool can absorb many times their weight, within the fibers, with no effect on insulating ability

true for wool but everything i've ever read says the complete opposite about down; that down loses 90% of insulation value when wet.
10-22-2007, 07:33
Cannibal

Quote:

Originally Posted by kohburn

true for wool but everything i've ever read says the complete opposite about down; that down loses 90% of insulation value when wet.

Constant source of debate on that topic. Studies show this, studies show that; basic lesson keep your stuff dry!
10-22-2007, 08:51
Rapt

Not matter what they say Keep your stuff dry... EVEn the modern synthetics which "don't absorb water" are miserable and cold when wet. Its the energy required to evaporate the water that chills you, even if the insulation retains much of its insulating value you're still gonna be COLD.

DOn't ask how I know this...