First Hang: Grrr, Zzzz, Brrr.

My first real hang is done and I have issues. Hammock issues, that is.

The gear was a Hennessy Hammock Expedition Asym, a SuperShelter (+ emergency blanket), a Double Bubble pad, a 15 year old 20 degree down sleeping bag, balaclava, fleece hat, fleece pullover, a synthetic pullover, synthetic t-shirt, cotton sweatpants, and two synthetic wool socks. The hammock is hung on my screened porch, so no temperature difference between the outside and the hang location. Haven't figured out a good set-up for the tarp yet. I turned in at 20 degrees, and got up at 20 degrees.

I started off with everything but the DB pad.

New Hampshire was (is) being visited by a Nor'easter. The snow started falling around 11:00pm, which was the time I turned in. At first it was nice to listen to the snow tapping against the few stubborn, dry and brittle leaves that refused to fall to the ground with the rest. But then the wind picked up, and its intermittent roar kept me from dozing off properly. It did happen, just took a while.

Then, at 12:45am, my WONDERFUL neighbors (and I mean that in the most curse-ridden way possible) decided it would be a good time to take the four-wheeler out and blow donuts. For a half hour. I was feeling a bit cool at that point, and I desperately missed my earplugs. Luckily the porch door was 2 feet away, so I put on foggy glasses and combined a pee trip with earplug hunting. Back out in about 5 minutes, where I put the DB pad in the hammock.

It was pretty comfortable sleeping on my back. Twice during my hang I snored. No big deal except for those listening, right? Unfortunately I'm one of those who listen, and wake up from snoring to turn to the side or stomach. That wasn't comfortable for long, so I turned back to my back. And snored. Vicious cycle.

My second try lasted until 4:30 when I just couldn't get back to sleep. The DB pad worked great initially, but my shoulders and back ended up cold... or were they? The sensation is all new to me. I couldn't tell if I was sweating and that was chilling me, or if it was an issue with the hammock. I was centered on the pad, the sleeping bag wrapped around my shoulders... don't know. My legs were toasty warm with only the sweatpants, my double-socked feet were fine, but my bundled core seemed chilly. Maybe I was over-dressed.

Went to bed and woke up with a sore shoulder. Not sure if that was bed related or hammock related, as the bed has been giving me problems lately.

So not really a great first experience, but there's more testing to be done to stop the chill.

Great write up. I has a similar experience with a set of boy Scout troops. Its never fun when they are noisy.

Where were you cold? Was it cbs or cts? (cold top syndrome). What is the temp rating of the bag?

My top was temperate and my butt was balmy. The cold area was my shoulders and upper back.

To escape my familial horde, I stole away to the porch this evening. Spent about 1.5 hours there, at 21 degrees and a kicking wind. Cold shoulders again... but now I know why. The bag wasn't wrapped around my neck enough. While my shoulders weren't outright exposed, there was a gap for cold air to sink down to them. Once I closed that up, I was pleasantly warm. And with one less layer on my feet and torso. Still woke up to myself snoring though.

This may take a bit more experimentation. Gee, does that mean I need to take more naps? :D

The bag is a 20 degree "Wide Body" bag. Semi-rectangular with a detachable hood. I think it's better suited than an attached-hood mummy would be, and have mostly used it as a quilt, be it in a tent, or relegated to the couch for detestable behavior. :glare:

But there's that nasty bit of fabric on it (the bottom) which has much less insulation. Under the top, sure, that's fine at 20 degrees. Under the bottom (?) is probably more like 50 degrees. I guess I could ditch the bottom and convert it into a quilt (if I had a sewing machine... and any skill whatsoever), but will make do for now, and get a top quilt at another time. O for a top quilt, with super squishability and wrap around snugness!

I don't know what a db pad is but it may not be wide enough at the shoulders. Your shoulders could be touching the side of the hammock causing them to be cold.

The Double Bubble Pad is from Hennessy Hammocks:

http://hennessyhammock.com/images/up...epad-440px.jpg

As you can see, it's wider at the shoulders. (Unless I install it backwards and have really fat ankles)

I did consider that to be a possible issue, but was able to confirm that each shoulder was on the pad.

Start saving money for an Under Quilt. I think they are worth every penny for ease of use and comfort. In the meantime, do what you got to do to get out there.

Happy Holidays.

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Originally Posted by zim

My top was temperate and my butt was balmy. The cold area was my shoulders and upper back.

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Well this was not only a poor 1st experience at cold weather hammocking, but it is also quite a variation on how folks are usually cold in a hammock! IOW, usually the 1st place people get cold is their butt and lower back, also popular is cold feet. But your butt was balmy, and your feet were fine! Quite the predicament this is!

Here are then just some general thoughts. If I am reading you right, you were inside your bag and not using it quilt style? Because if quilt style, there is a learning curve to avoid drafts around the neck and shoulders or anywhere if you move in your sleep. But you were warm enough on top, so probably not a factor.

There is quite a range over which people find the base HHSS to be warm, from not at all, to 40 or 30 and a few folks do well quite a bit below 30F. But I remember Tom Hennessy used to call the base system of hammock, space blanket, 1 pad and undercover a 30* system, and that is about how it has always worked for me. If it was a windy 20F with no tarp, you might have really been pushing past the limits of the HHSS even by the standards of those who do very well with it.

EXCEPT, you added the HH bubble pad, which many people have used by itself to 40 or even below. Sense you were previously- after a couple of hours at 20F or lower plus wind chill, only "feeling a bit cool at that point", you would think that adding another 30F worth of protection would push you right into toasty land. But instead your " shoulders and back ended up cold" after a couple more hours.

I don't know. Any chance of the HHSS being installed incorrectly?

Can you determine if there was any condensation? Remember, the key to a condensation free space blanket use is to have it close to your body on top of your pad and keep it warm. Needless to say, condensation occurs on cold surfaces. You mentioned maybe being over dressed. I suppose that could keep a person from warming up the space blanket and maybe lead to condensation? Maybe.

Most helpful tip I know of: If you are plenty warm on top and have insulation you don't need to sleep in, place it ( for ex: a fleece jacket ) under the pad in the UC. Jacket zipped closed so it will form a double layer. This can provide an impressive boost of warmth.

I will be very interested to see if you find an answer to why your butt was warm but your shoulders and back cold.

zim,
my first couple of experiences were not too dissimilar to yours. I had a problem with shifting around a bit and sleeping light. I still woke refreshed, but until i had about 10 nights in my hammock did i realize how much better i slept overall. i still do a little turning in the night, but i think its just how i am. i now have great sleep everynight (since about july) in my hammock and my turtledog stand.

your body will get used to the change of sleeping style/arrangement and you should be a very comfortable hanger in the near future. good luck and if you havent been welcomed to the forums yet, a warm welcome to you from guam. take care

Zim, loved the title--an apt description of the night. +1 on getting a good seal around the shoulders whether you're using a bag or a quilt--it can take some fiddlin' to get that right. I, too, snore and have apnea, so I know about waking myself up. Many times I found it hard to get to sleep with tossing, turning, adjusting, etc. But once I've truly hit the sweet spot I've slept for hours in comfort--even surprised myself by sleeping in longer than expected. Keep after it--you'll get it dialed in and be better off for it.

A note on the snoring...I have sleep apnea and when I camp with my kayak club, I sleep about 40 yards away from everybody else so they can get a good night's sleep. Two years ago I got a CPAP which solved the problem, but you can't take it hiking. I was sorely depressed because I got used to sleeping well at night with the CPAP and figured I could never camp away from an electrical outlet again.

One of my club buddies reccomended https://puresleep.com/s30/homepage.php which works GREAT!! It was 40 here on Orlando last night and I slept outside in my ENO DN. The mouthpiece allowed me to sleep deeply (no one was around to hear me snore). I used a Walmart blue pad, a poncho liner and a HH Double Bubble Pad. I was also somewhat cold around my shoulders cause the top of my sleeping bag kept coming unzipped, but pretty warm everywhere else.

Could your feet have been a little too high on the first attempt too?

I've had a few occasions when I've set up in the dark, probably tired too, when I've had the feet too high you get a lot of downward pressure on your shoulders and sometimes this can negate the insulation you're using.

Just thought I'd throw that one in too

Well, this last test was certainly different!

Had the opportunit for an afternoon nap. Temperature was 23 degrees with a slight breeze. Instead of two pairs of socks, I had one, and instead of two pullovers, I had just the fleece. Wore a cotton t-shirt. Everything else was the same: no tarp, HHSS installed, bubble pad inside hammock, and... I ROASTED! After about an hour I had to vent.

Haven't had any condensation with the SuperShelter, wore the bag quilt-style, feet do seem a little higher, but a line level on the ridgeline shows the head-end being a bit higher.

I'm pretty sure it was just the bag not being sealed around my neck and shoulders on the first hang, because this time I made sure, and felt no cold at all. One thing different this time was I had just eaten lunch, and probably stoked the internal heater. It will take some tweaking to find the right setup, but I'm loving it. I plan on testing with different types of clothes and insultation arrangements. It would be nice to take the hammock down to lower temps.

I did notice something neat though. I unzipped the bugnet just a little and stuck my hand outside. It was cooler! The bugnet retains a little bit of heat. Not as much as an overcover would, I'm sure, but it does help a little.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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Originally Posted by zim

Well, this last test was certainly different!

Had the opportunit for an afternoon nap. Temperature was 23 degrees with a slight breeze. Instead of two pairs of socks, I had one, and instead of two pullovers, I had just the fleece. Wore a cotton t-shirt. Everything else was the same: no tarp, HHSS installed, bubble pad inside hammock, and... I ROASTED! After about an hour I had to vent.

Haven't had any condensation with the SuperShelter, wore the bag quilt-style, feet do seem a little higher, but a line level on the ridgeline shows the head-end being a bit higher.

I'm pretty sure it was just the bag not being sealed around my neck and shoulders on the first hang, because this time I made sure, and felt no cold at all. One thing different this time was I had just eaten lunch, and probably stoked the internal heater. It will take some tweaking to find the right setup, but I'm loving it. I plan on testing with different types of clothes and insultation arrangements. It would be nice to take the hammock down to lower temps.

I did notice something neat though. I unzipped the bugnet just a little and stuck my hand outside. It was cooler! The bugnet retains a little bit of heat. Not as much as an overcover would, I'm sure, but it does help a little.

Thanks for the suggestions.

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Well, ain't that a kick in the butt! A draft was my 1st instinct, but some part of your story -maybe because you were plenty warm on top I guess - sort of ruled that out for me. But with any UQ or TQ or bag used as a TQ, for me a draft is always the 1st suspect. Only because I have had so much trouble with it myself.

So "roasting" in an HHSS at a breezy/no tarp 23F, eh? Well, I guess we can count one more hanger into the ever - if oh so slowly - growing ranks of successful HHSS users! Of course, you did have the bubble pad, but that's all right, it is an easy add on to the system. (Plus, I don't think that pad has many of the comfort issues seen with many pads in a hammock) An easy add on to a system that is just naturally easy to add to and boost anyway, IMO.

Also keep in mind that roasting at 23 during a nap might be a little different after 8 or 10 hours sleeping through the night. Because there is more time for your metabolism to drop as you sleep, and more time away from your last hot meal. But OTOH, just adding some of that clothing you didn't wear down into your UC can get you another 10 or 20F anyway. Does for me at least.

But congrats on a very successful cold weather nap! Also glad to hear there were no condensation issues, which I also have never had trouble with. Welcome to the lucky group!

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Originally Posted by zim

I did notice something neat though. I unzipped the bugnet just a little and stuck my hand outside. It was cooler! The bugnet retains a little bit of heat. Not as much as an overcover would, I'm sure, but it does help a little.

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A lot of people are surprised at how much heat the netting actually retains. Or rather it restricts airflow to the point that it feels warmer.

In cold weather I found that less clothing is typically more. It's not uncommon for me to sleep in just polypro thermals and socks. I've also gone with shorts and a t-shirt. As long as the other insulation is sufficient I sleep fine.

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Originally Posted by russelj2

A note on the snoring...One of my club buddies reccomended https://puresleep.com/s30/homepage.php which works GREAT!!

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This is interesting because I seem more prone to snoring in the hammock than in bed, possibly just due to the different alignment since I don't use a pillow when hanging. I'll hafta check this out -- THANKS!

-Klauss

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Originally Posted by Klaussinator

This is interesting because I seem more prone to snoring in the hammock than in bed, possibly just due to the different alignment since I don't use a pillow when hanging. I'll hafta check this out -- THANKS!

-Klauss

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Same here. I figure it's because I sleep deeper in the hammock. My friends will thank me if this thing works. :-P

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Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Also keep in mind that roasting at 23 during a nap might be a little different after 8 or 10 hours sleeping through the night. Because there is more time for your metabolism to drop as you sleep, and more time away from your last hot meal. But OTOH, just adding some of that clothing you didn't wear down into your UC can get you another 10 or 20F anyway. Does for me at least.

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8 to 10 hours of sleep would be a dream! (pun intended) But I did get 7.5 hours of suspended snoozing last night, starting at 18 degrees and ending at 14. Went in at 4:30 for a pee break and to throw more wood into the stove.

The top of my legs were a bit cool, but my butt and back were slightly sweaty from laying on the pad and wearing cotton. I aired out my clothes, and then headed back out to the cold with a fleece blanket to supplement the 20 degree bag. Slept for another 2.5 hours before the daylight, chirping birds, and chill drove me inside.

While I can't compare it to an underquilt, I like the HHSS so far... and hammock camping in general. Didn't wake up with a back ache for once!

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Originally Posted by zim

8 to 10 hours of sleep would be a dream! (pun intended) But I did get 7.5 hours of suspended snoozing last night, starting at 18 degrees and ending at 14. Went in at 4:30 for a pee break and to throw more wood into the stove.

The top of my legs were a bit cool, but my butt and back were slightly sweaty from laying on the pad and wearing cotton. I aired out my clothes, and then headed back out to the cold with a fleece blanket to supplement the 20 degree bag. Slept for another 2.5 hours before the daylight, chirping birds, and chill drove me inside.

While I can't compare it to an underquilt, I like the HHSS so far... and hammock camping in general. Didn't wake up with a back ache for once!

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So you slept 7.5 hrs from 18F to 14F and during some of that time your back was warm enough to sweat? ( and all of this with no tarp? ) When you finally woke up chilled, was it your back or something else? Actually, looking back I see you say the tops of your legs were a bit cool, so I guess you are mainly going past the limits of your bag. Still, did you notice a cold back or butt anywhere during the night?

It does not look like you need an UQ, unless of course you just want one. And if you had one working perfectly, sleeping without a tarp or a sock to block the breeze might have made you a lot colder than you would expect. Sounds to me like you are doing about as well as could be expected with this system. By adding the HH bubble pad, you are going about 15F lower than I ever did, unless I added insulation down below(never have added a pad yet). And if it turns out your back/butt never did get cold, then you have at least another few degrees to go before the system gives up.

It would be interesting to see how well you would do without the pad, or plus maybe adding some unworn clothing down below. You might sweat less with just the pad and space blanket, or maybe not. I only say that because sweat has not been a problem for me, but YMMV.

You have managed quite the improvement from that 1st night!