27 degrees and CBS???

Okay so I finaly got a chance to use my storm crow custom winter UQ AND TQ both with 3 extra onces of down, a Alps zero degree down bag and themal under wear tops and bottoms and ended up with a case of CBS and can't figure out why. The UQ was snug against my back side with no air gaps and the head and foot end tight to the hammock, I also had a nice tarp with the ends closed down. The rest of my body was warm but not as hot as I thought it'd be. I slid a hand warmer between my thighs mid way through the night and the CBS went away for a few hours. Am I doing something wrong, do I need a pad at below freezing? I had givin my rig a air math guesstimation rating of atleast zero degree comfort but a little concerned to go out again in three weeks to a location I know will be single digets hints advice?

Oh the hammock was an eno double nest deluxe couldn't fit my clark nx-250 in my new pack got a REI 85xt to try and go UL... My load out dropped to 53.6lbs I think I did something wrong there but I honesty took all the gear out I could... I think going dehydrated food will drop a few more pounds, either off of me or off my pack maybe both ;)

It's a sure bet with that setup that you've got a gap somewhere. Get a friend to help you find it while you're laying in the hammock. Keep at it, once you get the UQ dialed in you'll be fine and you really don't need that Alps bag. I find Stormcrows gear is good for temps colder than the rating.

David

Was there someone to check out the uq while you where in it? Makes a world of difference. May have had a small air gap that caused it.

It was a solo hike, no one I hike with hasgear that can get them below 40, my father it threatening DIY a winter UQ and a few friends "if you can call a ground dweller that" say they're gonna try and gear up for colder hikes.I willhaveto try settingup at home and. See ifsomeone can spot the air gap, and yes I thought the alps bag. was over kill butafter the cbs am extremely happy I brought it... I was amussed that there was about 16 inches of puffy down above me in the hammock I couldn't see anything bellow my neck except my TQ. Thanks I'll look for air gaps.

when all else fails cinch cinch cinch. The gear your describing should take you to the artic and back. If you can't get an extra pair of eyes just cinch the living heck out of the end channels and or move the quilt a few inches in either direction to find where you get the best seal. You'll be able to feel the difference rather quickly.

I've always been a warm sleeper and the gearwas rated for well below what I was at I'm also thinking it may have been the eno, the gap Ihadit set up was only about 10 foot tree to tree and the hang was... not as comfortable as I'm used to, the hammock... creassed? In the middle by my calves so I cinched the top tight but. Probly should have gone tighter. I'm thinking of ordering a black bird double layer so I can throw a thin pad under me and realy get to some low temps. And maybe try the water bottle trick.

I know air gaps are a likely culprit, but if you cinch it up too tight dont you run the risk of compressing the down? I had my 0* incubator out yesterday at 25* with nothing but long underwear on and I was toasty warm.

Air gaps might not have been easily visible. I've had the edges of the UQ all cinched up and tight, but trapped a bubble of cold air between my butt and the UQ. I solved that by adding some extra bungie-cord to the grograin loops on the UQ, then stringing it over my ridgeline for lift. (this is on a Blackbird where I keep my ridgeline pretty tight)

My UQ has a couple OZ of extra 900 fill, and it simply sags in the middle causing that cold air bubble.

On my Switchback hammock, the hammock has grosgrain loops that almost match up with the grosgrain loops on the UQ, so I just use #0 size plastic S-biners to clip the UQ to the hammock (as well as the normal suspension). Clipping the UQ on pulls it a bit tight, but works well to keep any air bubbles from getting under me.

I hope that helps some. I might setup my winter hammock gear on the deck and sleep outside tonight in prep for a three(!) winter hangs I have coming in January. I'll take some photos if that helps. (I have a new "outdoor" camera I need to test!)

Sounds to me like you had too much extraneous crap in the hamock with you, a simple case of overkill gone wrong. With a 0* rated UQ and TQ you should have been plenty toasty at 27*, even if you were a cold sleeper. Try it with just the TQ and UQ and any clothing you would normally wear. Don't forget a nice warm hat.

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Originally Posted by lowclass

what I was at I'm also thinking it may have been the eno, the gap Ihadit set up was only about 10 foot tree to tree and the hang was...

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That hammock is 9'10" long. If you only had ten feet between the trees and did anything but nail the hammock body to the trees, you probably had too much sag to make the UQ wrap correctly under the hammock. If the hammock has enough distance between trees, the UQ should be ably to be suspended snug enough to resolve about all of the other issues you mentioned. Combine only having ten feet between trees with the DoubleNest being 6'8" wide, and it would be nearly impossible to get a good fit with any UQ.

This really is a common problem for folks with various UQs going through the learning curve. I have really not experienced such problems, other than fairly quickly realizing I had to cinch my WB synthetic Yeti (the original) tighter than I thought I would, and making sure it was correctly positioned at my neck/shoulders. Same with my JRB MWs, just got them snug enough from the beginning and no problems. Plus if those are attached per JRB directions to the JRB BMBH there is no adjustment to fiddle with, it is automatically correct. And with a HHSS or PeaPod there is not much to adjust, if you have the HH tie outs through the HH pad and UC loops. And as long as the PeaPod is not pulled obviously to tight so that the down is compressed too much.

But can't help but notice how often this problem shows up here. Maybe there is a need for more complete directions with UQs, to avoid CBS 1st night out? Or maybe directions are adequate and just not studied enough?

Oh well, you will get it soon. Cold air is getting under you some how. But I don't think you are too tight and compressing down. Because these are dif cut quilts, right? So just get it tight enough, probably a good bit tighter than you would think. With my WB, it lifts the hammock 2 or 3 feet in the center before I get in. And make sure the quilt is positioned correctly relative to your head, not sure what that would be with this brand quilt.

Funny how- of those I have used - only the PeaPod ( and maybe the HHSS) is opposite of that. I start with a gap of 4-8" between the pod and hammock before I get in. Then the hammock sags more than the pod, so that the pod is just contacting my back once I am inside. But, the pod has no elastic shock cord suspension, just nylon cords and Velcro.

I also think you are getting an air gap between your back and the UQ.
In my experience with winter UQ's they are just too heavy to be supported by the shockcord provided on the ends.

I also found that if your UQ has a leg shelf you have to be careful not to slide down in the hammock, thru the night, or your butt will end up on the shelf creating a huge air gap on your back.

hth

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Originally Posted by OutandBack

I also think you are getting an air gap between your back and the UQ.
In my experience with winter UQ's they are just too heavy to be supported by the shockcord provided on the ends.
hth

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The shockcord is probably adequate if it is attached to the corners. With the side channel suspension the heavier winter UQ's do tend to slide inward forming a cold spot in the middle. One fix is to attach a small prussik loop on the shockcord near each corner, then use something like a S-biner to attach UQ to the prussik loop. This will keep it from sliding inward and the shockcord in the side channels will still help keep the UQ pulled up. Also make sure UQ is being pulled up more than out.

Thanks hangout, a clever fix!

I had the same problem with my incubators on both the WBBB and the Switchback. Seems like the "winter" is worse than the "3S", probably due to the extra bulk hanging. I tightened the shock chord by tying a loop on the head end, tight enough to litterally raise the empty hammock. Problem solved

Another issue is the down can bunch in one spot leaving thin spots in other areas. You need to shake it and fluff it, to even out the down. Might not be as big a problem with yours since it is overstuffed.

I just fixed this exact same problem with my ENO dbl and my winter incubator. I was overall warm, but kept getting cool spot around my lowerback butt area.

Now, I keep my UQ tight against the hammock. End channels cinched nice and tight. All looks good from the outside. Even when feeling underneath me for gaps, it almost felt warm to the touch to my hands but wasn't translating when I was laying down.

Then I hit the sweet spot. Talking with Luke and figuring it may be bunching up because of how short the hammock is, I tweaked my end cinches to let it "flex" more with my feet in the "box" area. I kept the side my feet weren't on cinched tight, but let a little out (btw talking about he draft cinches) of the side WITH my feet. I've also seen Shug do this in his how-to vids with UQ's. This tiny tweek made ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Did that, feel asleep within minutes, slept until 8am the next morning waking up so warm and toasty I decided to sleep another hour.

I think somehow your feet push your UQ away from you when you stretch out if you have your draft channel cinched too tight on your foot side.

Thanks for all the info, I'm goingto try and setitup again this weekend I like the idea of adding a support line in the middle to help pull the uq upagainst me. And have someone look at it while I'm in it to try and spot the air gap. I will also keep an eye out for a group hang in my area, ambush a couple hammocking vets and get there input. Actualy I think I'll put a post up for a group hang for northern AZ and see if it gets some traction. Thanks all I will report back my findings.

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Originally Posted by lowclass

Thanks for all the info, I'm goingto try and setitup again this weekend I like the idea of adding a support line in the middle to help pull the uq upagainst me. And have someone look at it while I'm in it to try and spot the air gap. I will also keep an eye out for a group hang in my area, ambush a couple hammocking vets and get there input. Actualy I think I'll put a post up for a group hang for northern AZ and see if it gets some traction. Thanks all I will report back my findings.

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You can see how I did my UQ "lifters" at 3:00 in the video.
Shug

yeah i agree you need to use the side tabs on the UQ to lift it more over your RL.... i had the same problem with my old crowsnest it would sag in the middle creating a air pocket ...
if it was an air gap you would have more than CBS IMO

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Originally Posted by Slo

I just fixed this exact same problem with my ENO dbl and my winter incubator. I was overall warm, but kept getting cool spot around my lowerback butt area.

Now, I keep my UQ tight against the hammock. End channels cinched nice and tight. All looks good from the outside. Even when feeling underneath me for gaps, it almost felt warm to the touch to my hands but wasn't translating when I was laying down.

Then I hit the sweet spot. Talking with Luke and figuring it may be bunching up because of how short the hammock is, I tweaked my end cinches to let it "flex" more with my feet in the "box" area. I kept the side my feet weren't on cinched tight, but let a little out (btw talking about he draft cinches) of the side WITH my feet. I've also seen Shug do this in his how-to vids with UQ's. This tiny tweek made ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Did that, feel asleep within minutes, slept until 8am the next morning waking up so warm and toasty I decided to sleep another hour.

I think somehow your feet push your UQ away from you when you stretch out if you have your draft channel cinched too tight on your foot side.

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Those are some real good points. Experimenting with these shock cords can have a big pay off.

My winter Incubator had a sag under my calf on the left side back toward my hip. The solution wound up being to pull the left foot end corner toward the suspension while leaving the footbox side loose to move on the channel. I countered this at the head end by anchoring the right side corner, this kept the UQ in place. In the end I didn't need to support across the ridgeline but it's a good bandaid solution during the night and you have CBS.

David

Last year I had a a spell of the CBS..... I added a post on here and got some great ideas. Just waiting on a cold night to try it out again.......