Winter: best use of parka w/ HH SS (or other under-hammock system)?

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10-30-2008, 20:09
kwpapke

Winter: best use of parka w/ HH SS (or other under-hammock system)?
So I'm having an e-mail thread with another HH SS user, and he says that Tom H. suggests using a parka underneath the OCF underpad in the HH Supershelter in very cold weather.

I've been pondering how best to use my Primaloft parka when hanging this winter:
- On top of my down bag as an overquilt
- Underneath the OCF pad as additional bottom insulation as Tom H. suggests
Of course the two uses will have very different impact. If used underneath, I'll need more top insulation (better sleeping bag or quilt), if I use it on top I'll need to find a way to get more protection for my backside (Thermarest, etc.) The question is really where it will be more effective and any tips to maximize that effectiveness. I need to pack my parka anyway to stay warm on breaks and at night in-camp, so I'm looking for the best way to incorporate it into my sleep system.

Searching back through the thread history it seems like using a parka or vest over the top is quite common.

Have any of you used a parka beneath you, either in a Supershelter or JRB Weathershield or maybe even a peapod? How well has it worked out?

I know Billybob is always a big fan of Garlington insulators underneath, and my parka is really just a Primaloft-filled Garlington.

For those using it as top insulation, how much of a problem is the down compression?

Yeah, I know YMMV and I'm going to have to try it out in the backyard here in Minnesnowta once the weather starts to chill down a bit, but wanting to get some helpful hints before my first excursion. Any guidance would be helpful.

TIA,

--Kurt
10-30-2008, 20:23
stormcrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwpapke

So I'm having an e-mail thread with another HH SS user, and he says that Tom H. suggests using a parka underneath the OCF underpad in the HH Supershelter in very cold weather.

I've been pondering how best to use my Primaloft parka when hanging this winter:

On top of my down bag as an overquilt
Underneath the OCF pad as additional bottom insulation as Tom H. suggests

Of course the two uses will have very different impact. If used underneath, I'll need more top insulation (better sleeping bag or quilt), if I use it on top I'll need to find a way to get more protection for my backside (Thermarest, etc.) The question is really where it will be more effective and any tips to maximize that effectiveness. I need to pack my parka anyway to stay warm on breaks and at night in-camp, so I'm looking for the best way to incorporate it into my sleep system.

Searching back through the thread history it seems like using a parka or vest over the top is quite common.

Have any of you used a parka beneath you, either in a Supershelter or JRB Weathershield or maybe even a peapod? How well has it worked out?

I know Billybob is always a big fan of Garlington insulators underneath, and my parka is really just a Primaloft-filled Garlington.

For those using it as top insulation, how much of a problem is the down compression?

Yeah, I know YMMV and I'm going to have to try it out in the backyard here in Minnesnowta once the weather starts to chill down a bit, but wanting to get some helpful hints before my first excursion. Any guidance would be helpful.

TIA,

--Kurt
I suppose if Tom H. says to try it in conjunction with his SS system then it is worth a shot. What immediately comes to mind is the possible compression of the parka that will most likely happen when you put your full weight in the hammock.

It sounds to me like you are already needing more top insulation. Using the parka up on top might make more of a difference. Maybe extra insulation down by your feet? If you are still cold on your backside then maybe you could add some type of a CCF pad or think about an underquilt.

Good call on testing it out in the backyard first BEFORE you DEPEND on it.

Those are just my initial thoughts. I am sure the gurus on here will have some insight as well.
10-30-2008, 20:36
Coffee

I think it might be hard to get the parka snug underneath. Any air gaps are going to cut down the effectiveness of it as a makeshift UQ.

I found 2 uses for my down jacket that work well for me in the cold.

One is wrapping it around my feet at the bottom of my quilt. This allows me to sleep without socks. Helping my feet to dry out. They are usually damp from sweat or water on cold days.

The second also works well for use with quilts. The drawback of quilts is there is no coverage for your head. I always wear a warm hat, but at times that is not enough. I use my jacket as both a pillow and a hood. Makes things toasty warm.

Another choice is I still take my rain jacket. I have put that over my ridgeline on cold nights I don't have my hammock sock to work as a make shift one and trap in some heat. The only drawback is it makes things dark and I sleep in late. A little condensation as well.
10-30-2008, 23:05
warbonnetguy

supposedly as long as the down isn't more than 50% compressed there is no loss of warmth.

i would say putting it under the ocf pad like th said is likely much more effective than putting it between the ocf and hammock.
10-31-2008, 11:22
Fiddleback

While I have yet to hang in temps less than the low-20's I find I don't need a bag or quilt when I wear my Integral Designs Dolomitti jacket as part of my sleep system. I've had the same success with a North Face Nuptse but I think the Dolomitti is a better/warmer jacket.

FB
11-01-2008, 12:23
Just Jeff

I wouldn't put any insulation between my body and a non-breathable undercover if it could absorb water.
11-01-2008, 12:36
warbonnetguy

jeff, true, i forgot about the under cover being sil.

fiddleback, you still use bottom insulation right? what is top insulation for your legs?
11-01-2008, 18:10
Shug

Quote:

kwpapke;83428]So I'm having an e-mail thread with another HH SS user, and he says that Tom H. suggests using a parka underneath the OCF underpad in the HH Supershelter in very cold weather

Yeah, I know YMMV and I'm going to have to try it out in the backyard here in Minnesnowta once the weather starts to chill down a bit, but wanting to get some helpful hints before my first excursion. Any guidance would be helpful.

Hey Kurt.... As a fellow Minnesotan hanger I have had good luck with two pads under, a ccf and insulated BA mat in cold, cold winter here. Crawled in early as the night falls fast that time of year with my parka on as I was just hanging out reading for a bit and fell asleep with it on. Meant to take it off but was so warm and snug. Had my REI 0º down bag in quilt mode. Best sleep ever ... no sweat or nothing. Temps were in the 0º to 10º range. Also, this was before a had a full UQ so it can be done and works up here in our kind of cold!
I plan on a couple of trips on the SHT and the Pow Wow Trail this winter. If your ever interested PM me and maybe we could get our schedules together. Normally I go during the week as that is when my time-off falls.
Shug of the Snug Snooze
11-02-2008, 11:07
Fiddleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

jeff, true, i forgot about the under cover being sil.

fiddleback, you still use bottom insulation right? what is top insulation for your legs?

My sleep system is based on the fact that Spring thru Fall, I can find freezing temps any night in my region without getting very high into the hills. I therefore always carry cold weather clothing. But it's also warm to hot during the days so I get dual use of the clothing by incorporating it into my sleep system. It kinda helps justify carrying those clothes while I'm dripping sweat as I pant down the trail.:rolleyes:

In the hammock, I use the Dolomitti jacket (above) and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon pants. My pad is a 7oz Oware CCF (60X40X3/8"). The rest of the sleep system is the normal assortment of a baselayer, balaclava, fresh socks, etc., which I use at all time; in a hammock or on the ground, with or without a sleeping bag. This system has served me well, May - October, in mid-20s temps. Lower than that I have to add/upgrade the underinsulation...too far into the teens I'll have to add a quilt.

FB
11-02-2008, 23:17
BillyBob58
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwpapke

.................
I've been pondering how best to use my Primaloft parka when hanging this winter:

On top of my down bag as an overquilt
Underneath the OCF pad as additional bottom insulation as Tom H. suggests

Of course the two uses will have very different impact. If used underneath, I'll need more top insulation (better sleeping bag or quilt), if I use it on top I'll need to find a way to get more protection for my backside (Thermarest, etc.) The question is really where it will be more effective and any tips to maximize that effectiveness. I need to pack my parka anyway to stay warm on breaks and at night in-camp, so I'm looking for the best way to incorporate it into my sleep system...........
Well, it just depends on so many variables, the main one being where your greatest need is. For example, Is your top quilt or sleeping bag already adequate for your expected temps without requiring any thing more than long Johns? If so, then you would probably be better off using it in the SS, either in the UC below the pad, or even on the pad. Where it will indeed be very useful and can add a major boost. Though the ease of use will vary with how many oz per square inch or sq.yard it weighs. If it is relatively heavy, it will cause some sag and gaps, but you will probably be able to make suspension adjustments to accommodate the extra weight. Which will be a hassle, but can be done. It will be great if you have some one to work with you, so that one can lay in the hammock and the other check adjustments, making sure that there is no gap AND minimal loss of loft. Ideal will be with all added insulation just in contact with your back, with little loft compression. And just be sure you have a SB/Heat Sheet/vapor barrier on top of all insulation, or things are going to get wet and then cold. But you probably already know that.

If your bag/quilt is inadequate, then layer your parka into your top insulation in any number of ways. Boost the SS with a pad or Garlington Insulator or whatever you have.

Quote:

Have any of you used a parka beneath you, either in a Supershelter or JRB Weathershield or maybe even a peapod? How well has it worked out?

I have no experience with the Weather Shield. But my Parkas have worked well in the SS, but the lighter the better. My down vest works great. And lighter items work fine on top of the pad ( and UNDER the SB!). Parkas or vests in the UC tend to slide to the low point, which is where you need it most anyway. But you may want to rig up a cord to hold your parkas in place higher up under your back. A Garlinton Insulator works great because it is so light weight relative to it's thickness, so your UC should be able to easily hold it snug against your pad and back with no gaps.

All of the above ( Parkas, Vests, SBs, dry rain gear, even pads or dry leaves-- Whatever you are not wearing) have worked spectacularly well in my PeaPod. You might just have to readjust the tension on the pod for more or less sag so that whatever you have added is still barely in contact with your back. With this approach, I have found it easy to end up with 4, 5, or even 6 or more inches of loft under my back. There are some disadvantages to the PeaPod compared to other systems, but ease of keeping warm is not one of them.

Quote:

I know Billybob is always a big fan of Garlington insulators underneath, and my parka is really just a Primaloft-filled Garlington.

For those using it as top insulation, how much of a problem is the down compression?

If you have a way to keep your head warm so that you won't need the hood, you can use Shug's technique of putting the parka on backwards, with your arms in the sleeves. There will be zero compression problem, just a bunch of loft above you adding to your bag/quilt. Try it in your recliner to get an idea how well this works. Or if you need the hood then just wear the parka normally, and inside your bag/quilt. You will compress the loft under your back, but have full loft on top and to the sides.

Your parka is probably much heavier than a Garlington insulator ( 3 or 4 oz total max).Which is not a problem, but will probably require additional suspension tensioning to make up for the weight. Or, maybe not!

Quote:

Yeah, I know YMMV and I'm going to have to try it out in the backyard here in Minnesnowta once the weather starts to chill down a bit, but wanting to get some helpful hints before my first excursion. Any guidance would be helpful.

TIA,

--Kurt

Good luck to you pushing the SS for Minn temps. :scared: But it has been done. Let us know what you discover during back yard testing.