Do you have a Blackbird, fellow hanger?

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Originally Posted by animalcontrol

Add this to the footbox (like I said, the footbox is a part of the equation) and you change not only the lay of the hammock, but the positioning of the person.
No matter what, it sure is **** comfortabe!! :D

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I agree with everything you said, but this point is especially important. The foot box gives you far more room to lay more to the diagonal. To do the same thing in an ENO style hammock, your feet would be hanging out of the hammock by a foot or so. This ability to lay in a different position completely changes the feel of the hammock.

Plus, as you said, the long edges on an eno feel like they are under more tension, and thus it would be far less comfortable to hang your feet over the edge like that. In the blackbird, this extra space allows you to lay in a position that is just not possible in the simple traveler hammocks, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

...and thus it would be far less comfortable to hang your feet over the edge like that. In the blackbird, this extra space allows you to lay in a position that is just not possible in the simple traveler hammocks, IMO.

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My DIY no net comes very close...but that's another thread!
I still assert that in addition to the footbox, the unique whipping/gathering method utilized on the BB increases a persons ability to lie flatter than a just the footbox alone.
Or to state that another way...if a person simply takes an ENO and adds a footbox, it will not be the same as a BB, (again, just my theory)

Blackbird DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope Brandon is still making the Blackbird by the time I get round to hopefully purchasing one:scared:

However and until then these Blackbird threads are my favourite:laugh:

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Originally Posted by Mustardman

I agree with everything you said, but this point is especially important. The foot box gives you far more room to lay more to the diagonal. To do the same thing in an ENO style hammock, your feet would be hanging out of the hammock by a foot or so. This ability to lay in a different position completely changes the feel of the hammock.

Plus, as you said, the long edges on an eno feel like they are under more tension, and thus it would be far less comfortable to hang your feet over the edge like that. In the blackbird, this extra space allows you to lay in a position that is just not possible in the simple traveler hammocks, IMO.

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The position of your feet on an ENO (i.e., at the edge of the hammock or extended past the edge) would depend I think on whether you're doing this on a single or a double. Wider hammocks let you lay on a more pronounced diagonal, clearly.

With all this pontificating I'm doing on the BB (on the road, so I can't lay hands and eyes on it right now), I'm curious about the observation w.r.t. long edges on the ENO. Mine is a double and the long edges pretty much flop. I suspect this again is a function of the width of the BB relative to the width of an ENO single, or ENO double. I'll just have to get 'em both out when I'm home again and see.

Grizz

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams

I'll just have to get 'em both out when I'm home again and see.

Grizz

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What an awesome luxury to be able to put your hands on each option...Jealous, I am!:)
I'm basing my assumptions of the ENO on my own Claytor as they use (as I understand it)the same set-up (the Claytor is quite a bit narrower). Of course, we all know about that assumption thing...:scared:
Please, let me know about your comparisons of the single and double ENO...very curious

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Originally Posted by HappyCamper

There needs to be a checkmark for: "No, but I WANT ONE BAD!"

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Agreed, and maybe one for "As soon as I get my tax refund I'm e-mailing Brandon!"

I know, I know, not much of a contest but listen...
I have been using an ENO single, since the bugs all went away (most of my trips so far). How to word this...

Ok, I like the hammock for the most part but what I DONT LIKE about it is the sides. My experience is that the part of the hammock where the sides change color (the extra pieces sewn on the sides to give it width) sags too much. It seems like right at the seam the they just about lay over. They do it to some degree no matter how tight or loose I pitch it. Thorwren kind of likes it because she says it makes a little shelf to put her head when she is watching tv...but she is 5"3 :scared: and does not need that extra fabric to lay asym. At 6'2" I DO need it but it does not seem so functional. Does anyone else out there notice this with the floppy sides? I think the SINGLE is comfortable enough (it sure as heck is no BB). The main reason I bring it with me is that it is pretty darn LIGHT!

The ENO double might be a little better but I do not have experience with that model.

Adam

The double is more comfortable to me. I have a single and a double and much prefer the double, while Genuine Draft has no preference. She is 5'2" and I'm 6'. The floppy is still there and will never go away (:mad:), but I understand what the misses is saying about the 'head shelf'. Also don't forget about the 'arm hammock'; that's my favorite thing to do with the floppy bit.

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Originally Posted by animalcontrol

While I have no doubt in Dutch's analysis, my personal expirence is different.
IMO, there is more to the difference in the lay of the BB and the ENO than simply the footbox.(although I'm sure that contributes also.)

The whipping WBG does is very different than a simple channel ala ENO or Claytor.
The Claytor style runs the suspension through the channel and under tension, the stress of suspension is directly applied to the hammock body.
WBG uses a channel but the suspension doesn't use that channel. His suspension attaches in more of a Speer gathered/whipped (read larks head knot) style. The long side have very little tension even under the weight of a person. In a Claytor/ENO, IMO, the long sides have a higher amount of tension
Again IMO, based on my own DIY failures, this makes a difference on the lay of the hammock. Add this to the footbox (like I said, the footbox is a part of the equation) and you change not only the lay of the hammock, but the positioning of the person.
No matter what, it sure is **** comfortabe!! :D

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Your discription of the whipping method is much better then mine. I guess what surprized me is there has been alot of emphisis on folding and whipping in the past. People have been cutting the ends at an angle and off center folding method.....roll 5 times then fold in half...... Brandon said fooey to all that and used the channel to gather the ends. I don't know if it would lay any differently if he used the channel to run the suspension through or not. I suspect not. His method does leave a nice ball of material to for the suspension to grab on to. It also give a nice finished end compared to the end of a homemade speer. Also the BB differs on dimensions, I don't have my notes but I think the body is a 9'3" x 64" rectangle. I never measured my Eno so I cant say about how it compares to measurments. The difference in material is also playing a role and the BB does get flatter. The bugnet also does and amazing amount of shaping also. The more I work on it the more I'm impressed with it.