on another thread about knot basics, hogn8r made this statement..
[quote=Hogn8r;32440].I once talked to a guy about using the gizzies on ropes and his thot was that it is better to use something like the figure 9 or double buckle because it has a higher breaking strength than a knot. This is a misconception because ANY turn, bend or loop in a rope, wether in a knot or on a friction device causes the same weakening. The loss of strength comes from the fibers being unequally burdened in the radius of the turn. IOW, fewer of the fibers are taking the load and this happens when you tie a knot or you a friction/clamp device that uses ANY bend,turn or pinch point in the rope.
i'll use that thought to make mention of a concern w/ the clinch buckle i've expressed before.
now don't get me wrong & get your feathers all ruffled:rolleyes: because like i said before i like the clinch buckle & what i'm going to describe may not take very much away from the strength of the webbing, but it's just a thought that sticks in my mind when ever i think about the time i spent using the clinch buckle.
i saw how using the clinch buckle every night in approximately the same spot on the webbing caused that section of webbing to become noticeably more soft than the rest, making it harder to push back through to loosen.
it also showed signs of light fraying in that section too.
the webbing's i used for the clinch buckle were the cheap wal-mart 1" pollyester webbing (which is'nt IMO a good representative of the better webbing's) & the 1" tubular nylon webbing from the climbing section at the local outfitters.
both showed the softening i talked about above. the fraying was more on the wal-mart webbing.
point is that there is a sharper bend & all the force is placed on a smaller point in the webbing when using the clinch buckle.
it may never cause an actual failure as long as the webbing is of good quality, but just some thing to think about.
with the double rings the webbing is traveling over a larger, round surface. of course the slip knot that is tied & untied each time may work on the integrity of the webbing too???
I'd say that while its probably true that the buckles will eventually wear out the webbing, that may not happen in the life of the fabric in your hammock.
Yes the rings probably are less hard on the webbing since they're designed to do basically what we use them for but with climbing rope. The larger the radius the less damage to the webbing or rope.
Same is true with knots. The "back-up" slipknot is going to be less hard on the lines since its not usually under a lot of tension so it doesn't get tightened and "crimped" to as tight a radius as a knot that has been pulled tighter. Also because its tied around webbing (itself) the radius is going to be larger than if it was a fine rope.
How much loss are we talking about? How cumulative is it? I don't think there's any way to know except empirically. I believe that's how the de-rating of knots in rope are arrived at.
Every once in a while when using the rings my slipknot would get sucked into the rings. Lots of crimping going on there... tough to extract and untie. (fwiw).
like i said, in actual, nightly use i saw what i described above in those two types of webbing.
Originally Posted by Rapt
i wasn't keeping records (or even very good mental notes) but i believe the softening & fraying became noticeable in a couple weeks or less.
on the trail the difference in between trees & their diameter will put the wear in different locations on the webbing, but the in home test serves well to show how it could affect the webbing over time by putting the stress in the same general location.
i guess i could put the clinch buckles back on my hammock & start w/ new webbing from speer since that's what i have.
i jerk the slip knot up tight against the rings & i've never had that happen???
Originally Posted by NCPatrick
I agree with the above comments. The buckles will wear on the webbing over time, but I don't think it is a big deal because of three things:
1) In a trail use setting you are hanging from trees that are different distances apart. In doing so you adjust the buckles to different sections of the webbing for each hang and put less continual stress on one spot.
2) The wear is quite visible. When it becomes enough that it concerns you, you have quite a number of hangs of 'warning time'. Certainly enough to make it somewhere that has available webbing. (ratcheting ties, etc)
3) Webbing is very inexpensive and is readily available.
For 'home testing' where the lengths are always the same, I'm not sure I'd use webbing anyway. A better method would be to get some chain with a hook of some sort on the end and hook the rings or buckle to that instead of webbing. It doesn't need to be light if you aren't carrying it anywhere, and you can then save the webbing for trail use where the lengths vary.
Originally Posted by slowhike
true... i have used chain at times, but i like seeing how well the webbing does in exsagerated use... that is, constant wear & force in the same sections.
i always have padding under me:eek:
And I agree with your comments. I love my "Cinch" buckles.
Originally Posted by angrysparrow
There a cinch to use.
Glad you brought this up slowhike. I've been thinking about the topic a lot lately since I'm going to be hanging for about 200 days in a row. I totally agree that you should have plenty of warning time if it does begin to become a problem, but I really don't want to deal with it if it can be avoided. I've already decided to take the rings with me on my thru for all the reasons you listed.
But, I really do like the cinch buckles and will probably use those on any other hikes or outings.