Prohibiting "slandering" of vendors as part of TOS

[OutandBack]

Hi Mark.
We already have rules against slandering members and vendors are members. As far as I know this rule is fully enforced.

II. Be Respectful. This is not negotiable. We treat each other with respect at Hammock Forums. This is a great community where the norm is to support others in their ideas and projects (including respectful critiques), and not assume offense where none is intended...and therefore not to flame, call names, or create friction in our threads. It's often easy to get frustrated over someone's post and type a quick reply to "set them straight." If the original post is out of line and the follow-up is calm and respectful, then it is appropriate for well-established members to help newbies learn our norms. However, we will not show a lack of respect for each other. Disagreement is fine; disrespectful behavior is not. Please make it easier on the community and police your own posts. Since intent is hard to gauge on the internet, please start by giving the benefit of the doubt if the post is not clearly offensive.

We also treat other sites with respect. Politely referring folks to the best source of hammocking info on the net is absolutely encouraged. Using Hammock Forums to foster a spam campaign against another site is not. Doing it in the name of Hammock Forums is entirely inappropriate and misrepresents what this community stands for.

[OneClick]

Hi Mark.
We already have rules against slandering members and vendors are members. As far as I know this rule is fully enforced.

Thanks O&B. I did take a look at those but though about something specifically for vendors. I saw the part about vendors vs. vendors. But I guess this covers all the bases.

And you're right about things being enforced - that's the main reason why I frequent this forum. There's little/no fighting which is so common on most other forums.

[canoebie]

I appreciate this thread. Regardless of any outcomes, it is good to know that civil discourse is valued and appreciated. Thanks markr6 for raising your concern. Personally, I would never consider sharing discontent on the forum. I would express such with my wallet. I am dismayed when it occurs, usually without additional clarification from the vendor over things, which often seem to me to be petty.

I am amazed at how little room there often seems to be for understanding and forgiveness, regardless of who is at fault. Sometimes I think it is an indicator of a larger issue in our society. Thanks again for your insights one and all.

[OutandBack]

Thanks O&B. I did take a look at those but though about something specifically for vendors. I saw the part about vendors vs. vendors. But I guess this covers all the bases.

And you're right about things being enforced - that's the main reason why I frequent this forum. There's little/no fighting which is so common on most other forums.

I know where your flustration is coming from and I cringe when I read a poorly worded gear or service report.

I am not sure we can fix that with a TOS rule that would not squelch all negative feedback.
Many vendor inovations have come from someone reporting an in field issue with a current design.
There was a time when no UQ had duel suspension and many of us dealt with CBS.
There was a time when most of us lived with calf ridge pressure.

[SwinginIt]

If we do that then we would also need to ban all the fanboy/girl posts as well. I understand what you mean about unreal expectations, but it does'tt take a person long to figure out if that's the case when reading these posts.

[mudsocks]

Is there a way we can somehow prohibit threads and posts about vendors “failing to...” or producing “another unhappy customer”? If you actually read these threads, it seems like ALL of them involve unrealistic expectations, overreactions, and a vendor trying to make things right.

Maybe. Maybe not. How are you or I to know what transpired?

Personally, I want to be informed of any sleazy vendor that steals or cheats. But I honestly believe we do not have any of these. If so, I missed them. And this definitely does not describe any of the vendors I dealt with or read negative posts about.

Unfortunately not everyone has had your experience.

But if you look at all these complaints, they are, in my opinion, always overexaggerated. Rethinking this, I guess it's a gray area with no perfect solution.

That's your opinion. Are you really asking the moderation team to censor more posts on your behalf based on our opinion?

Every time I see a thread describing a negative experience with a vendor I cringe. I don't think (hope) anyone here enjoys reading about other people's bad experiences with any vendor but at the end of the day I prefer to have all the information and make an informed decision for myself.

[IRONFISH45]

Thank you markr6 for opening this discussion. My input is I appreciate knowledge that some vendors are just a bit slow responding, or sometimes gear is just not as advertised or someone is very slow shipping.

I feel that comments should be respectful and kept to the facts, leave the emotions out of the statement.

I sometimes read through complaints (I am surprised how few complaints are made). I can tell who is not making a realistic complaint. I also look at how long they have been a member of the group and how often they post.

I feel that brave members pointing out a problem they have had with a piece of gear or service they have helped me make intelligent purchasing decisions. One set of comments about gear, possibly saved me from having a fall from equipment failure.

If those of us who care see a thread that is not respectful we have a method of registering a complaint. Simply contact a Moderator and let the moderator make a decision on the content of the thread.

What I have observed is some of the New Members in particular are not understanding about cottage vendors. Big Box sellors are very different from the cottage industry. I custom knit sweaters at one time. People sent me their measurements, I knit the sweater. Not an instant turn around, sizing depended on the clients own measurements. A few people just did not understand what custom made entails.

Transparency is the key, in my humble opinion. Our world would be a far better place is most dealings were transparent.

[OneClick]

That's your opinion. Are you really asking the moderation team to censor more posts on your behalf based on our opinion?

That was my idea, but understand it would probably not be possible. I've seen it on another forum, and I honestly don't know how they have the time to do it.

But having said my part and reading all the responses, it seems like everyone is basically on the same page. I don't see this as an "issue" with the forum, just a suggestion.

Maybe something as simple as asking members to try and resolve product/delivery issues with vendors via PM, phone or e-mail before posting online...instead of doing so FIRST, then following up with a "now resolved" post.

[Paul-Stefi]

I am somewhat new to the forum but I kind of disagree, I recently had a bad experience with one of our vendors, mostly due to lack of communication, and rude behavior on their part. I don't think my expectations were unrealistic. I have been putting together a review that I hope to post soon. I don't intend for it to be a slander or anything of the sort I just feel that if I had seen such a review before hand I may not have made my purchase. Although this vendor I have never seen comment on the forum so maybe they don't appreciate the power of word of mouth. Just my 2 cents your welcome to disagree.

[GreatBigDave]

I'm new here and to hammocking and I'm going to make a comment on what I've seen on HF. I'll use the pronoun "you" to mean all of you regulars who've been here for a long time and share your knowledge, experience, and enthusiasm for hammocking so generously. Please don't be offended, I hope someday to use "we".

I've seen tenacious support for the cottage community in some threads on HF that describe someone's less than ideal experience. I've seen the support get pretty ugly, far uglier than the original complaint with denial posts building on denial posts denying insults that were never made. Please try to keep in mind that the complaint comes from a person who feels unfairly treated - defensive before the first post. Certainly there will be those with unreasnonable expectations - some people can never be satisfied. Just as certainly there will be real problems and misunderstandings. Repeated response posts that deny the vailidity of the complaint don't help anyone and only make the OP more defensive. Ultimately, this cottage community is hurt by driving away new customers, making them vow "never again".

Clearly many of you know each other personally as well as on HF and I can see that you are hurt when your friends are slighted. Please try to refrain from reacting to this hurt. One post that says "That's odd, I haven't had that problem." is enough. Encourage the vendor to address the issue in the public forum.

My two cents as an interested outside observer.