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Thread: TI Nail Stakes

  1. #1
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    TI Nail Stakes

    For those who like DIY and want some really, really, really strong stakes, you might try this:

    Buy the high strength titanium (grade 5) from McMaster-Carr.

    It's available in 12", 36" and 72" lengths. The 36" length will yield 6 6" stakes at a cost of $4.90 each ( neglecting S&H - with S&H, it'll come to slightly over $5 each). The 72" length will bring the cost down slightly. A group buy of 2 or 3 people would be feasible with that length.

    Now what do you get with your DIY TI Nail Stake?

    The Al & V alloy is super, super, super strong and it is lighter than pure Ti.

    How strong you ask - well my experience today is the following:

    I cut 2" lengths of their pure Ti 1/4" rod for toggles and drilled a hole in one end of one. Drilling the hole was harder than for Stainless steel, but doable in about 15 minutes using a putty dam and water to keep things cool.

    Then I cut 2 6" lengths of the 3/16" Ti alloy for nail stakes. The cutting went well using the fiber glass reinforced wheels on the dremel. It was about the same as for cutting the pure Ti and about the same as cutting 1/4" stainless steel tubing..

    Next I used the grinding wheel to put a point on one end - that was an experience - it took 20 minutes to grind a simple point on one end using the coarse wheel and another few minutes to smooth it somewhat on the fine wheel. In comparison, I have ground off half of a 4" length of the 1/4" stainless steel tubing in about 5 minutes.

    I thought the hard part was over.

    Then I decided to drill a 7/64" hole for some guy line cord. Drilling that hole took over an hour, way over an hour. I've never worked so hard to drill a simple hole in some 3/16" diameter stock .

    That Ti alloy stuff is HARD. If you think Ti is hard, try that alloy.

    And it's actually slightly lighter than pure Ti (well their 98.9+% stuff anyway )

    So, if you have ever bent a stake and want one that will probably just punch down through solid stone, make some from that 3/16" Ti alloy.

    Super strong and actually lighter than the pure Ti nail stakes you can buy (I think it's Vargo that makes the 6" Ti Nail stakes).

    I've found in the past I usually only need 1 or 2 nail stakes - I can drive one of the nails into really hard ground, pull and insert a regular Ti stake into the hole and it works fine.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  2. #2
    Dutch's Avatar
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    I was eye balling the tubing to make toggles. I have to look into this further.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member JerryW's Avatar
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    McMaster-Carr is a great place. They're usually a little pricier than others, but they have anything a DIYer is looking for. They also have small quantities available and super fast shipping.

    Question - I've never worked with Ti before or even handled a Ti stake. Would 1/8" be adequate for stakes? And would it be possible to put a hook shape bend in the end? Maybe with a torch?

    Thanks - Jerry
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  4. #4
    Senior Member gunn parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I was eye balling the tubing to make toggles. I have to look into this further.
    sorry, but what's a toggle?
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    Senior Member gargoyle's Avatar
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    A toggle is the peg/item you attach your loop to in the marlinspike set-up. It can be seen in grizz's videos on suspension. It can be a tent stake, a piece of wood, a carabiner, or in this reference a piece of titanium, cut to length and with the small hole drilled in it, tied to main suspension line.here is one example around the four minute mark.
    And here at the 5:00.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Stopped by Lowes this morning and looked over their assortment of drill bits.

    I have always purchased the Cobalt coated bits because they have been good enough for what I needed and they are reasonably priced. This time I noticed that Bosch has Ti coated bits. A lot pricier, but ....

    So I decided to try them.

    Ti vs Ti

    That might be a fair fight.

    Well the Ti bit went through the Ti rod a whole lot better. The Cobalt took over an hour, the Ti went through in under 2 minutes.

    Now making the super hard Ti nail stakes is doable. Use the fiber glass reinforced cut off wheels to cut the rod and the Ti drill bits to drill the hole for the cord.

    Sweet.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  7. #7
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryW View Post
    McMaster-Carr is a great place. They're usually a little pricier than others, but they have anything a DIYer is looking for. They also have small quantities available and super fast shipping.

    Question - I've never worked with Ti before or even handled a Ti stake. Would 1/8" be adequate for stakes? And would it be possible to put a hook shape bend in the end? Maybe with a torch?

    Thanks - Jerry
    1/8" Ti stakes would work very well - that's the size I use after using the Ti nail stake to punch a hole in really, really hard ground.

    I wouldn't bother with the hook shape on the end - I very much dislike the hook in that it makes people misuse stakes. They rely on the hook to hold the guy line cord instead of properly using the stake to cord angle.

    By using the hook to hold the cord, people get the stake to cord angle all wrong and the cord ends up with forces pulling the stake out of the ground.

    If the proper stake to cord angle is used, the cord pulls the stake into the ground instead of out of the ground.

    You need longer guy lines for the proper angle, but you then don't have the cord pulling your stakes out either. With wet or soggy ground, the proper angle can make a world of difference.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  8. #8
    Senior Member TeeDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunn parker View Post
    sorry, but what's a toggle?
    Here's the definition from the Meriam-Webster dictionary:

    * Pronunciation: \ˈtä-gəl\
    * Function: noun
    * Etymology: origin unknown
    * Date: circa 1775

    1 : a piece or device for holding or securing: as a : a pin inserted in a nautical knot to make it more secure or easier to slip b : a crosspiece attached to the end of or to a loop in something (as a chain, rope, line, strap, or belt) usually to prevent slipping, to serve in twisting or tightening, or to hold something attached
    2 : a device consisting of two bars jointed together end to end but not in line so that when a force is applied to the joint tending to straighten it pressure will be exerted on the parts adjacent or fixed to the outer ends of the bars; also : a device with a joint using a toggle
    The use of the word must be differentiated from it's use for other purposes.

    Here's the definition from webopedia:

    To switch from one setting to another. The term toggle implies that there are only two possible settings and that you are switching from the current setting to the other setting.

    A toggle switch is a switch that has just two positions. For example, light switches that turn a light on or off are toggle switches. On computer keyboards, the Caps Lock key is a toggle switch because pressing it can have two meanings depending on what the current setting is. If Caps Lock is already on, then pressing the Caps Lock key turns it off. If Caps Lock is off, pressing the Caps Lock key turns it on.

    Toggle switches also exist in software. For, example a check box in a dialog box is a toggle switch.
    Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.

    Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)

  9. #9
    Senior Member JerryW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeDee View Post
    1/8" Ti stakes would work very well - that's the size I use after using the Ti nail stake to punch a hole in really, really hard ground.

    I wouldn't bother with the hook shape on the end - I very much dislike the hook in that it makes people misuse stakes. They rely on the hook to hold the guy line cord instead of properly using the stake to cord angle.
    Thanks for the size confirmation TeeDee.

    As far as the hook goes, I was thinking ease of pushing them into the ground with my palm and pulling them out with a finger. I always try to get a good angle, relative to the pull of the guyline.

    Actually, if I can buy a set of six for ~$15 from BPL it really isn't worth it to try and make them.

    Jerry
    The "Search" function is your friend!

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