Getting cold all over, need some help

**Gadgetgeek** · 06-05-2015, 18:13

So I have been using a 6oz apex underquilt with nyon taffeta cover, suspention is 3mm shock cord on lineloc 3s, with 2mm shock end cinches, no shockcord in the long sides. My top quilt for this trip was 6oz as well, but ripstop inner, argon 95 outer.
Last week I did three nights with temps dropping to between 5 and 1 C with very high humidity, everything in the morning pretty soaked, lots of condensation in the inside of my tarp, very heavy dew on everything. light breeze every night, tried both with and without the uqp, wasn't convincing either way, but then again, it might be too tight, and compressing the insulation, and then just trading wind resistance for insulation value?

Generally what happens is I get in, everything is good, although by the time I'm in bed, its already cold and damp out. mid-weight merino baselayer, fleece jacket and wool socks, and whatever I needed to keep my head warm. For the first hour or so, everything is good, then I slowly cool down everywhere. once it wakes me up, then I chase cold spots around for a bit, and can generally get back to sleep once I warm up. the temp determines how often I have to wake up, but I was waking up chilled, and much better than when I did similar conditions with the 2oz top quilt. I know I'm getting something wrong with the hang, because a few times I got instant cold-butt, so thats to be sorted, and I do get cold rather easily. However I was thinking that on its own should get me to those temps, maybe needing merinos, and certainly not the jacket. and if I'm awake, its easily warm enough, so I know I'm right on that transition point.

Was I over optimistic in my assessment of the insulation? could it simply be a case that the humidity is causing me that much extra heat-loss (which if it is, should I even bother thinking about a down upgrade farther along the line, or will that be useless?)
what sort of other things should I be looking for or what other info can I gather to help figure this out? I wasn't expecting to be hitting the near 0C mark all that often, but it looks to be more a possibility, so I'd like to warm it up a bit farther. I'll try to hang it up and get some pics, but that might wait till next week.
Thanks!

**SilvrSurfr** · 06-05-2015, 18:21

Where is Oz? Just curious.

**DamnYankee** · 06-05-2015, 18:58

Oz is short for Australia

**gunner76** · 06-05-2015, 19:27

Have you had a fellow hanger check to see if you have any gaps between the hammock and your UQ ? If not, get someone similar in size and weight and have them get into hammock and check out the fit.

I have had a few times of waking up when it is cold out ( lower than 20 degree F ) when I have found the top of my TQ to be covered with moisture but the inside is dry and warm when there is high humidity and little wind. Don't seem to have the same problem when there is a steady breeze.

Other things to look at are...possibility of the base layer being tight enough to cut circulation and reducing bodies ability to heat itself
.... to much clothing causing you to be too warm and perspire more causing excess moisture in TQ

**BillyBob58** · 06-05-2015, 21:47

Originally Posted by Gadgetgeek

So I have been using a 6oz apex underquilt with nyon taffeta cover, suspention is 3mm shock cord on lineloc 3s, with 2mm shock end cinches, no shockcord in the long sides. My top quilt for this trip was 6oz as well, but ripstop inner, argon 95 outer.
Last week I did three nights with temps dropping to between 5 and 1 C with very high humidity, everything in the morning pretty soaked, lots of condensation in the inside of my tarp, very heavy dew on everything. light breeze every night, tried both with and without the uqp, wasn't convincing either way, but then again, it might be too tight, and compressing the insulation, and then just trading wind resistance for insulation value?

Generally what happens is I get in, everything is good, although by the time I'm in bed, its already cold and damp out. mid-weight merino baselayer, fleece jacket and wool socks, and whatever I needed to keep my head warm. For the first hour or so, everything is good, then I slowly cool down everywhere. once it wakes me up, then I chase cold spots around for a bit, and can generally get back to sleep once I warm up. the temp determines how often I have to wake up, but I was waking up chilled, and much better than when I did similar conditions with the 2oz top quilt. I know I'm getting something wrong with the hang, because a few times I got instant cold-butt, so thats to be sorted, and I do get cold rather easily. However I was thinking that on its own should get me to those temps, maybe needing merinos, and certainly not the jacket. and if I'm awake, its easily warm enough, so I know I'm right on that transition point.

Was I over optimistic in my assessment of the insulation? could it simply be a case that the humidity is causing me that much extra heat-loss (which if it is, should I even bother thinking about a down upgrade farther along the line, or will that be useless?)
what sort of other things should I be looking for or what other info can I gather to help figure this out? I wasn't expecting to be hitting the near 0C mark all that often, but it looks to be more a possibility, so I'd like to warm it up a bit farther. I'll try to hang it up and get some pics, but that might wait till next week.
Thanks!

Over optimistic? I seriously doubt it, unless you are QUITE cold natured. Have you ever slept in similar temps and insulation on the ground? If so, cold? Warm? I have only taken a 6 oz CS XP(not even Apex) UQ into the high 30'sF(3-5C? toasty) just never got around to testing it colder. However, I have been plenty warm mid to high 40'sF with a mere 2.5 oz and no other warm layers just cotton jeans/T shirt, so IMHO(or WAG) 6 oz would keep me toasty easily at the temps you mention just above freezing.

So, again my best guess is it is something else. Drafts- top, bottom or both- are usually the number one thing. And especially on the bottom, compression of the insulation is always possible, particularly if your UQ is not a dif cut. I am curious about this instant CBS you mention. That makes me think either a big gap or the opposite: severely compressed loft. Usually a little compression seems to make little dif, but very much will leave you cold. In my experience so far with Polarguard and CS sleeping bags, UQs and clothing, it's hard for me to think even a lot of humidity and dew would make much difference. In my experience, even starting out quite wet, it tends to dry very quickly from body heat. So I'm thinking:drafts, compression or both, but probably not inadequate insulation. Good luck figuring it out!

**Gadgetgeek** · 06-06-2015, 03:58

well, did a test-hang in my garage which is cool enough today to feel if the insulation is there, but not chill test. Found that I probably had a pretty major vent under the left leg area, which since the hennesy kind of pulls up in that area and leaves a gap, I was probably losing a lot there. I was sure it was better, but I think the switching around and all that screwed me up, tightening the end cinch helped. It is a bit diff cut, but now I'm not 100% sure I've got it going the right direction, so there is that factor.
I did some adjusting since its about 7/8s length, and have it more set from neck to ankles which seems reasonable, and it felt better, laying in it in just jeans and a tee-shirt with no TQ I probably could have fallen asleep. I have a chance to test in the wild week after next, so I may do that.

Thanks for the ideas, without knowing what could be wrong its hard to know which stuff to work on, and knowing what expectations I should have.

**ShooTa** · 06-06-2015, 06:25

the other aspect other than an incorrectly fitting quilt is that your wearing too many layers - sweat is happening and then thats making you cold - sweat bath. not good .

**Gadgetgeek** · 06-07-2015, 03:39

good thought, but no, I'm very careful to avoid that. Could easily happen though. forecast is 14c degrees tonight, and wife has night shift, so I might do a test with it and the 2oz TQ.

did a nap test with it today 20C, it did not too bad, but I wasn't overheating, so maybe its not as good as it could be? but then I wasn't trying to overheat, just jeans and tee, no TQ. starting to look better though, and in the messing around I fixed a lay problem as well. since I tend to focus on everything else and then drop into bed, I've been putting up with things not being 100%. Still better than sleeping on the ground, and everyone gets a kick out of seeing my setup. I'm so glad I've got it, rather than having to fight with a single man tent while also dealing with munchkins.

**Monkeyboy42** · 06-07-2015, 06:42

What does your UQ suspension attach to? On my 5oz 3/4 UQ i found that I couldn't get a snug fit if i ran the suspension all the way to the gathered ends. I couldn't get rid of a huge cold spot right under me.

I attached prussic loops to the ridgeline and hooked the suspension to those. They're set around 6"-9" from the gathered ends. No more cold spot. Some people use the so called triangle thingies for this. Dutch also makes a piece of bling that does the same thing.

Good luck tracking down your problem!

**sargevining** · 06-07-2015, 06:52

6 oz should be better than that at 14c. I use 5 oz and 30f doesn't bother me.

Is the quilt rectangular? My DIY rectangular quilt does well with channel and gathered end hammocks, but not as well on my HH's.

I note that you're not using shock cord on the sides, you may want to switch out to shock cord.