When you guys finally settle on something, please put up some pics or a video. I come back and read this thread from time to time and you guys have gone to some Zen level of talk around suspensions. There's some good stuff happening here I can tell, it's just gone over my head.
Crayons - they might look different, but they all taste the same
Yeah that's kind of where I'm at. I hope I'm not discouraging any other ideas because i think there's room for improvement. And the toggled bite is a fantastic idea and I wouldn't say its hard to do. I'd still use it over whoopie slings. It's just that suspensions like the becket hitch and the amsteel bends have made me lazy.Originally Posted by SGT Rock
I do plan to make a video once I have had some trail time to evaluate the solution I am working with. I am personally skeptical that it is a solution that many would want to try.
So I leave in a couple of days and had an idea that would make the bend/hitch a little simpler. When I got home I went out to the hammock lab where not only did it fail spectacularly, it also was not any easier - harder actually. So I went ahead and retied the hammock with the toggle hitch again to reinforce in my mind that I could still make it work. One end held just fine but the other slipped! All I can figure is the humidity is really high right now and the extra moisture cuts down on the coefficient of friction enough to make it a problem. So I retie that end and make sure I pre-load it good and tightly dress the knot with a slippery half hitch and it held that time. But (as predicted) my hollow arrow shaft toggle is starting to deform as it is carrying more weight on it than it would in a marlin spike hitch. So now I need to create a new set of toggles before going off into the woods. Something solid and smooth.
Just thought I would throw that out there as an update. 2 nights and I'll be in the woods.
Plain old aluminum shepherds hooks tarp stakes can be cut into a relatively light, smooth and solid toggle.
Good luck,
RED
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Deep peace of the running wave to you.
Deep peace of the flowing air to you.
Deep peace of the quiet earth to you.
Deep peace of the shining stars to you.
Deep peace without end to you.
adapted from - ancient gaelic runes
That is what I was thinking.
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Edit: I went ahead and made some toggles at 3.1 grams each. So I have now added back in 4.4 grams. Lines+straps+grapplers are 33 grams total and toggles are 6.2 grams total, so 39.2 grams.
If I were using amsteel lines instead of dynaglide then it would only be 40 grams and there would be less parts to keep up with and it would just be a simple bend instead of what I am working through right now. Saving 0.8 grams hardly seems worth it. I could shave down the toggles to the absolute smallest I could get away with and maybe get a whole gram saved, but then they would be easier to lose if I dropped one.
I think I will just take amsteel lines this trip.
Last edited by SGT Rock; 09-30-2015 at 22:54.
Ok, there was a really detailed thread about amsteel strength after being larks headed around things here. This brochure was linked in that discussion.
It provides a couple figures and tables to calculate the rated capacity after doing something like we are doing with the dynaglide:
Formula for Calculating Rated Capacity (Single-Leg Slings):
Dia.________% retained
20x......................90%
10x......................85%
5x........................75%
2x........................60%
1x........................50%
Then there is a second table which calculates the loss due to the choker knot (toggled bite); its about 62% for all the different diameters. To find the rated capacity you would use the figure from the first table and multiply by the figure from the second table. This also assumes the line to tree breaks at an angle of 120º or greater from the bite (I think were good there). So with a 3/8" toggle we have about 75% x 620lbs= 465lbs. Half inch toggle might get us close to 500lbs.
With this in mind I would have to say that larger toggle does appear to be better and that the proper break angle is also important to maintain. If I continue to experiment with this I might try to use trail sticks about 0.75in in dia. and try to find smooth ones. Another option might be a wooden dowel from a hardware store.
Think of tensile strength as the breaking strength given a certain set of testing requirements. 850 lbs MBS is the minimum breaking strength while the 1000 lbs tensile strength is actually the average breaking strength (the average of many tests). They are both Tensile strengths.
NE Ropes had a history of listing the average breaking strength but when Teufelberger bought them, Teufelberger started listing the minimum breaking strength.
That sheds light on several aspects of this stuff. Thanks.
Huh. Good to know stuff.
I just got in from a three day two night hike in GSMNP. I took my Argon X90 Landing vehicle (it hasn't landed yet) and my Green Ghost with the experimental suspension.
Night 1: Argon X90 using SOB knots. The hammock is too narrow. I had it made at 48" with a foot box just like my Ghost hammocks. But when I took off the footbox because the material isn't strong enough to hold the extra stress of the connection point, it left the hammock too narrow for comfort. My feet kept sliding off the side! So if I am going to make the Argon hammock work it will have to be wider, I am thinking 4" more to bring it up to 52". The SOB knots both capsized on me and I didn't realize it until the morning. It took some time to get that undone.
Night 2: After walking 12.8 miles I wasn't in the mood to fight with a hammock that was too narrow again. So this night I put up my Green Ghost and used the Crock's Bend. The only hammock related issue I came up with was the ridgeline needs to be shortened about 2". The Crock's bend worked perfectly.
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