Yeah - I think it is probably movement past the soil.Originally Posted by oldgringo
Looked closely at the fender washer and realized that they are punched out. This means that one side of the punched out hole has a sharp edge and the other side is rounded. So, if I'm more observant/careful when assembling the dead man, I can put the rounded edge where the cord is inserted. This would mitigate the possible abrasion by the washer.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
SS Pipe showing wear:
Perhaps machine an end piece (and then harden it). It can be inserted into the end of the SS and then welded (or pinned but that won't be as strong... or as cool!)
A hammer-end-cap can be machined, hardened and installed in the other end of the SS tube.
This should make it strong enough.
Re: Wear on line
I think this is from moving through the earth. I would suggest welding a small nut on the side of the washer ahead of the hole to act as a plow - this should make a space for the line to travel through the soil as you hammer it in and protect from rocks etc. You could even drill a hole and use a short screw/nut to act as the plow (just a thought).
Re: Cotter pin - very cool - but I think a larger diameter roll pin would be even better. Roll pin is smooth and a continuous diameter - this will lower the breaking strength of the line less.
I wish I could play w/ this more this weekend but I gotta spend some time with the Fiancee or get my head removed
True - but I want something as simple as possible that the average DIY enthusiast could just order the rod/tubing from, say, McMaster-Carr, cut the slots and notch and be good to go. Hardening, welding, machining, etc are okay, but the average enthusiast doesn't have the resources.
I found a 1/4" x 32" rod of TI in the basement this morning. I'm thinking of cutting a 16" driver from the rod and see how that survives driving the dead men assemblies. Just checked McMaster-Carr, 3' is about $31. So, if the TI proves durable enough, and it is a lot harder than Stainless steel, then that could be a viable driver material. The 32" rod is 4.05 oz so a 16" driver would be approximately 2.07 oz. Heavier than the s.s. tubing, but it is solid and not hollow. For comparison, the 1/4" OD s.s. tubing driver is 14.75" and 1.55 oz. 14.75" of the 1/4" TI rod would be 1.87 oz. So it is not really that much heavier than the s.s. tubing. Approximately the weight of one dead man assembly.
The s.s. will bend and not break, the TI will most likely break rather than bend, but it will take a lot to do either to it. I'll have to see how it works.
I agree. I think the abrasion is due to friction with the earth as it is plowing through.
I don't want to get fancy on trying to prevent it though. I want parts that I can stop at Lowes, buy and assemble in the field as needed. I don't want a lot of time (or even any at all) or money invested in each dead man assembly since they are going to be left in the ground. 2 1/8"x1" cotter pins cost approximately $0.24 and the 3/16"x1.25" fender washer is $0.27, so the dead man assembly excluding the cord is only $0.51.
Also, preventing the abrasion just isn't worth the effort since the dyneema guy line cord only costs me about $0.13/ft. So even at 5' per dead man cord, that's only approximately $0.65 each and I'm pretty sure that each dead man cord can be used at least twice and maybe thrice.
I like replacing the cotter pin toggle with a roll pin. I'll stop by Lowes the next time we go out and look into those.
Just searched the internet. Roll pins or dowel pins that I could find are not cheap. Multiple $ per pin. If I cannot find any that are cost competitive with the cotter pins, I'll have to stick with the cotter pin.
Ahhhh yes - my wife has gotten used to my ways and indulges me. Probably more than she should, but then again maybe not.I wish I could play w/ this more this weekend but I gotta spend some time with the Fiancee or get my head removed
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
"the dead man assembly excluding the cord is only $0.51."
The entire assy from the trapper's supply place linked by Gargoyle was only $0.24 (when bought 100 at a time).
The driver was under $30.
Dave
"Loneliness is the poverty of self; solitude is the richness of self."~~~May Sarton
Couldn't resist - cut the 1/4" TI rod into 2 approximately equal pieces.
Cut the slot in one and notched it. Cutting the TI is a LOT harder than the stainless steel. It took approximately 1 hr to cut the slot and notch the end in the s.s. The TI took almost 3 times as long.
End result for the 1/4" x 15 7/8" TI driver: 2.00 oz. That works out to 1.9 oz for one the same length as the s.s. at 14.75". Only 0.035 oz more, but solid instead of tubular and more durable.
Set 6 dead men with it. It takes the abuse a LOT better than the s.s. Much better for this application. The hammered end got a good shine to it, but not the turned over edges that the s.s. got.
Of the 6 dead men, 2 failed. One failed to "set" properly and came right back up. The second failure was because the guy line cord just pulled straight out when I tried to "set" the dead man. Pretty sure the cotter pin toggle got turned wrong and pushed out of the cord as it was being driven.
On the last 2 successes, I switched from 3/16"x1.25" fender washers to 1/4"x1.25" fender washers. The slightly larger center hole gave more room for the 4 strands of guy line cord and the pusher cotter pin. This also meant that the guy line cord came out easier when it came time to pull it. That means less possible abrasion on the cord during extraction.
I've used the same dyneema guy line cord for all of the dead men thus far, about 9 to 12, and though it is showing abrasion where it wraps around the cotter pin toggle, it could still hold for use holding a hammock. Scraping across a rock going down would abrade it a LOT more and could make the cord fail. Not too sure of the probability of that happening right now.
I'm thinking the 1/4" TI driver is a real keeper.
Still thinking of ways to replace the cotter pins.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
True.
Do you know the weight of the driver. The pogostick drivers I looked at on the web were at least 1/2" steel and looked to accordingly heavy. The shortest length I found was 24", the other 2 were 34". The diameter of the drivers wasn't specified, but my guess is 1/2". Made for trappers. They do not intend carrying the drivers and a backpack for days. They only need the driver when they are setting new traps. Different perspective.
So their longer and probably heavier steel driver is only $1 less than my shorter and much lighter TI driver. From what I have found, 24" isn't really necessary for the driver for holding a hammock in the soils I have tested - mixed clay and loam.
I'd rather pack the 16" TI driver at 2 oz.
My price for the dead man assembly was based on Lowes prices for small quantities - 30 washer and 10 cotter pin packaging. The $0.51/dead man assembly is what I as a DIY/handyman would probably pay for local and quick access to the parts.
I looked at the site and they're selling the washers for $10.95/100 and the J hooks for $1.60/12- so yes $0.24/anchor
Searching the internet a few minutes and I found the washers at $6.11/100 and the cotter pins at $3.83/100. So the dead man assembly price comes down to $0.04 for the washer and cotter pins. So the dead man assembly per 100 is then only 4 cents. Add another generous 4 cents for the S&H and that is only 1/3 the price they want.
I may buy a package of their J hooks. Might be worth it to try them.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
The driver is unquestionably heavy...too heavy for backpackers, but easily doable for river runners and car campers staying in areas that proscribe attaching anything to trees.
They do sell replacement tips for the drivers, which might prove useful.
Dave
"Loneliness is the poverty of self; solitude is the richness of self."~~~May Sarton
Yes, I was looking at those wondering if they would fit on the bottom of the TI rod or could be made to do so.
Also, I stopped and paid more attention to the video and the web site linked.
Those J hooks might be able to be used with the TI rod I made. If that works, then I can just use those and not the cotter pins. If so then use those and essentially the Pogostick system, replacing their driver with the TI rod driver. The J hooks have 2 advantages:
- provide a better more secure attachment for the guy line cord with better release of the cord, and
- do a better job of tilting the washer for "setting" it.
More investigation.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Man you guys are going nuts on this. I'm looking fwd to seeing what comes out of this I have an application for it. I live to watch R & D work in process.
Peace Dutch
GA>ME 2003
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For starters check here:Just searched the internet. Roll pins or dowel pins that I could find are not cheap. Multiple $ per pin. If I cannot find any that are cost competitive with the cotter pins, I'll have to stick with the cotter pin.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=2078
They have LOTS of cool (cheap - mostly use-once) tools and parts.
Dyneema: My fear is that the damage on a single insertion would be such that the end user would take a fall and crack their noggin or tweak their spine (ouch!)
But this is much like Climbing - and I'd like to take the time right now to disclaim - Anyone attempting to use what we are talking about themselves must understand the inherent risks involved. Hanging... like climbing... (and walking across a street) all come with accompanied risks. You take them on your own and using your own free will to do so. Be smart! Don't hang any higher than you are completely WILLING to fall from
R&D starts back up for me soon. I just built the fiancee a 12x8 shelf from scratch for a bunch of our gear that needed a home. She is a happy camper now.
Be well,
XexorZ
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