I'm thinking seriously that staying with the fender washers and cotter pins is just so much easier.Originally Posted by XexorZ
No tools needed, just the driver.
Lighter and smaller.
Pick-up the cotter pins as I leave town and assemble in the field. Cheaper to order the cotter pins by the 100 pack on line, but having the option for a local source is always nice too.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Just came up with another idea based on your experiments. Give a look and (if you have time) give it a tryI'm thinking seriously that staying with the fender washers and cotter pins is just so much easier.
No tools needed, just the driver.
Lighter and smaller.
Pick-up the cotter pins as I leave town and assemble in the field. Cheaper to order the cotter pins by the 100 pack on line, but having the option for a local source is always nice too.I'd appreciate it.
-XexorZ
http://www.infinitycyberworks.com/pi...ashervideo.swf
Click Link above to watch SWF Video
Last edited by Pitch; 10-15-2009 at 17:00.
So would the cotter pins be able to hold the several hundred pound of pull I assume they would be under? I'm going to get a few & give it a try, I think I have a suitable "Driver" somewhere around here. I'll do it as a "Buy them in town & assemble in the field" type thing so no tools other than the small multi-tool I carry as a pot lifter. Will even take pictures, , , , if I remember to.
I wonder if I could use 2 cotter pins at the same time in one washer, inserted from the same side "Just to be safe". Let you know after Sat.
When you have a backpack on, no matter where you are, you’re home.
PAIN is INEVITABLE. MISERY is OPTIONAL.
I think a thick enough pin that was stitched into the washer would be able to. An alternative would be to tack-weld the ends flush to the washer. Heck, at that point I'd just lay a roll pin over the hole and spot/tack weld each end of it - a roll pin would be able to hold it for sure (mucho strong-o)
RE: Multiple cotter pins - Sure! Great idea even.
I hear ya w/ regards to "do it in the field" ... which is great - but a minute of forethought is worth a night swinging instead of a morning of back achin'
Xexorz - I like it.
Not too sure about the cotter pins holding though.
My original attempt was to insert the cotter pin through the center hole and bend over, i.e. without your second bend. They worked until the washer was "set". Then the forces easily pulled the cotter pin right up through the center hole.
The extra bend may be enough to hold. Will have to try.
The notch in the washer may not be needed:
- following the pogostick anchor model, just use the cotter pin through the center hole to drive the assembly. and
- using the center cotter pin allows the washer to spin like a wheel so that if an obstruction is encountered, it has the chance of just "wheeling" around it if it isn't too big an obstruction. The notch in the washer would prevent that.
Also, if the notch in the washer isn't used, just bend the parts of both cotter pins above the washer (the same side as the eye) in the same direction and, as you say, drive the dead man into the ground with the cotter pin ends pointing up.
The extra work on the washer drilling the holes is kind of a negative for me though. I like it simple.
Try this as a thought experiment: forget the holes and just put small notches on the edge of the washer and use those instead of the holes. Think that would hold? kind of iffy I think. Then take that a step further and forget the notches and just bend the cotter pin up over opposite edges. I'm pretty sure that would not hold. So I wonder what would be the difference between the last alternative and the holes? The alternative with the notched edge for the cotter pin would also have the disadvantage of keeping the washer from spinning - assuming of course that the pin stays in the notches - probably not. So the two alternatives keep the washer from spinning, but then pin through the holes probably would also.
So in the end I'm not too sure that bending the cotter pin is enough to hold.
I'll drill one or 2 or 3 washers and give it try, but .....
Think I'll try all 3 alternatives. If the extra bend is enough to hold then maybe just bending up over the edge alone may be enough. That would be the simplest yet.
Just tried bending a 1/8"x 2" cotter pin to get the extras bend in there. This requires, for me, at least 2 pairs of pliers. One to hold the cotter pin and another to do the bending. I could bend with my fingers alone when using the washer to hold the pin, but then the bends were all in the wrong places and the eye opened. Opening the eye then prevented the notch on the end of the driver from catching the cotter pin and holding it.
Maybe this is getting too complicated for me.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Just braze or weld it on
You could braze / solder the roll pins on also - they are way stronger and have a lower profile.
I bet you could sloppy-solder it on a camp stove... I just don't like the taste of flux in my food
OK, Ill do it two ways, one as a "Prepared at home" with the holes & notch & maybe even a retrieval line. And a "Done in the field" by just folding the cotter pin(s) over as best I can. Not sure what to do for a in the field attachment lead / line. The at home stuff I'll just go with the cable & ferrules.I think a thick enough pin that was stitched into the washer would be able to. An alternative would be to tack-weld the ends flush to the washer. Heck, at that point I'd just lay a roll pin over the hole and spot/tack weld each end of it - a roll pin would be able to hold it for sure (mucho strong-o)
RE: Multiple cotter pins - Sure! Great idea even.
I hear ya w/ regards to "do it in the field" ... which is great - but a minute of forethought is worth a night swinging instead of a morning of back achin'
Thinking out loud:
Wondering if a light chain would do. Something like a heavy duty dog chain, with links large enough to hook my biner to. Might plan on leaving it behind, kind of a one use thing just for safety.
2 on trail washers, one chain, make a loop of the chain? 1/2 the stress on the cotter pins if nothing else. Would take more time to rig. Good idea in soft soil?
OK, now what do we use as the Post hole digger / Aluminum ladder? I have ski poles as my trekking poles, so they are pretty sturdy, don't think they can hold my 200 lbs, even doubled up & totally retracted. Should I trust a tree limb I found nearby? Tree limb AND hiking poles? I see Duct Tape being used somewhere along here.
When you have a backpack on, no matter where you are, you’re home.
PAIN is INEVITABLE. MISERY is OPTIONAL.
Had another thought about the notch in the washer again today: I think the washer would tend to tilt to one side to the other depending on soil density variations as it was being driven. With the driver in the notch and not very far down the washer, 1/4 diameter or less, there is very little to stop it.
If the drift becomes too much you might end up driving the washer flat and out of the driver and losing the whole thing. Even worse, if you keep driving as the tilt gets worse, the washer could very likely bend the prongs of the driver and seriously damage it. That, of course, depends on the material of the driver. That is what happened to my original 1/4" stainless steel driver on the second dead man I tried.. The washer tilted and I couldn't feel that while driving. The tilt was enough to seriously bend one of the prongs on the s.s. driver. Of course, I was able to use a hammer and bend it back, no harm done, but that convinced me that s.s. was not a good material for the driver. Have not had that happen with the TI driver.
Even with my driver at slightly over 1/2 the diameter, I find that the washer doesn't really drive straight down, but most of the time tends to drift slightly and I end up with the driver at a small angle instead of vertical.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Don't think that leaving a chain behind in the wild, or not so wild, is a good idea. It is just something that small, or not so small, wildlife can get attached to and injure themselves or maybe starve. I'm thinking of those plastic collars around six-pack beverages that waterfowl get around their necks and eventually choke. Nobody thought of that when they developed the collars.
Don't know definitely that the chain would present a hazard, but probably best not to chance it.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Yessssss - getting a reliable stake is only half the problem. Need something strong enough to provide support, but light enough and small enough to carry.
That or a reliable way to find something in the field.
The few times I have experimented with a monopod here at home, I couldn't seem to make the arrangement work by myself since I didn't have enough hands and arms to hold the monopod, string the suspension and do that while finding the optimum stake location, then hold the monopod and string the suspension and then hold the suspension tight enough to keep the monopod somewhat vertical while tying to the stake. If the suspension had slack in it, the monopod just fell over. If I had a helper, the helper could hold the monopod until the hammock was strung up and I was in the hammock. Once the hammock was occupied, the monopod worked, but getting to that point was, well, challenging.
I think that the only way I would be able to use a monopod, or even a bipod, would be to guy it in place. 3 or 4 guy lines for the monopod and at least 2 for the bipod. Since the guy line would only need to hold the mono/bipod and not the hammock, any stakes should work for the guy lines.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks