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  1. #1
    Senior Member Muskrat's Avatar
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    TQ: Down or Synthetic ?

    Looking to get a TQ and I was planning to get a down TQ because of packability and weight. Doing my best to get my pack weight down and I am thinking this is the best option. I would like the quilt to be rated to 25* but after reading a few posts, I am seeing that Climashield can be packed relatively small, close to what a down TQ can be packed.

    Just curious if someone has pics or experience with both TQs.

  2. #2
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    My Ray Jardine climashield quilt kit has about the same loft and warmth as my JRB No Sniveler. The NS stuffs to about half the size of the synthetic quilt. There is less than a half-pound weight difference, but a lot of bulk. You won't be using a dinky little pack and staying out a week with a syn quilt.

  3. #3
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    FWIW, a lot of us don't stuff our quilts anyway, preferring instead to pack them loosely around the other items in the pack. So, for me anyway, packability wouldn't be as important as weight. You have to decide for yourself whether or not that's important.

    It's also important to keep in mind that you can usually get synthetics cheaper than down.

  4. #4
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    I have expirence with both Climashield (in 3 different weights) and down
    IMO
    Climashield is a very good, cheaper alternative to down for quilts (top or bottom) to temperatures about 35*-40*F. A Climashield (3.7oz/yd is the 'weight' of the Climashield..heavier weight=thicker and warmer) quilt isn't very bulky and very, very light. I have a Climashield DIY quilt I use to 35ish* and it is 45x63 and weighs 15oz.
    I also have a heavier Climashied quilt (5.0 oz/yd) that is good down to low 20s. I no longer carry it as it is too bulky to pack Vs a comparable down quilt
    All depends on your needs (I use a smaller 3600 cu in pack even for winter camping and space becomes a big concern)
    HYOH
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Muskrat's Avatar
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    Thanks, that pretty much answers the questions. I am dropping from 7000 cu in to a 3500 cu in so It seems as I might need to consider the down. Although the idea of packing the quilt loosely is a novel idea that I hadn't thought of.

  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Things are related, one thing leads to another. The Climashield does not weigh all that much more for equi warmth maybe, but it is definitely bulkier. And I kind of hate to compress any insulation to the max possible. So, if your pack is real small and it is going to be cold, it becomes extra important to have something that will compress a lot.

    That is why the whole UL pack thing can be such a challenge. Room as much as weight carrying ability. Especially as the trips get longer and more food must be carried, and especially if it is cold weather and thicker insulation must be carried. So some of us who sometimes like to go synthetic and would willingly sacrifice 1/2 lb in order to go with CS are then stymied by our pack size.

    Probably that is one reason I have been hesitant to switch from my McHale to smaller packs. I don't need it and its extra weight with 30 lb loads or less, even though the comfort is marvelous with these lighter loads. But the main thing is: room is never a problem. I have ended up carrying other folks bulkier items ( while trying to swap out so that weight remains the same). Their bulky items plus mine, no problem!

    But recently, the Molly Mac Pack approach shows great promise. Once again, bulk is not likely to be an issue. Just add a bigger sack! For example: the Sea to Summit Ultra Sil 20L(1200 ci?) Dry sack weighs 1.8 oz. Not quite big enough for you TQ/UQ and clothing not worn? Use a 35L(2100 cu?) which weighs 2.3 oz! Who cares? About twice the volume for 1/2 oz, and now you have lots of room, nearly the size of some UL packs in one sack! This should make packing a synthetic quilt easy, if you are willing to carry a little extra weight.

    So if your pack approach solves volume problems, then you are free to choose between the long debated pros and cons of synthetic vs down.

  7. #7
    Senior Member wisenber's Avatar
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    You don't have to have a tiny pack to have a light pack. My GoLite Pinnacle holds 4400 cubic inches. That lets me carry a lot of bulk provided I keep the overall weight down. Last Winter I backpacked in sub-zero conditions carrying a peapod, no sniveler AND an Old Rag Mtn. I slept toasty at minus 15 F, and really appreciated the second underquilt. My prefood pack weight was below 20 pounds for 5 days of Winter hiking. Lots of bulk, but not bad weight.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Muskrat's Avatar
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    That sounds great Wisenber. Currently I have a Dana Terraplane Overkill that weighs in at a UL weight of 8.0 pounds, EMPTIED! Although I do plan to use this pack more for winter backpacking. For 3 season use, my new pack will be the ULA "OHM" . . . a mere 1.3 lbs and 3500 cu in . My 3 season base weight (w/o food & water) is around 13 lbs. Haven't looked into Winter Base weights yet but I am sure it will go up since I would switch to the Terraplane.

    Which brings me to the root of my problem. I currently have a 25* Mountain Hardwear Bag and a fleece liner I use with a full length thermarest for winter camping. Making the switch to a TQ and using that primarily in the 3 season range, I'd like to save some $$$ and go with synthetic. However, the delima is bulk and a little extra weight. With the thought of purchasing 1 TQ to use in conjuction with everything else I already have, whats the better option? Let me say for the record that I consider myself a warm-hot sleeper.

    Any further advice is greatly appreciated . . .

  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisenber View Post
    You don't have to have a tiny pack to have a light pack. My GoLite Pinnacle holds 4400 cubic inches. That lets me carry a lot of bulk provided I keep the overall weight down. Last Winter I backpacked in sub-zero conditions carrying a peapod, no sniveler AND an Old Rag Mtn. I slept toasty at minus 15 F, and really appreciated the second underquilt. My prefood pack weight was below 20 pounds for 5 days of Winter hiking. Lots of bulk, but not bad weight.
    Yes Wisenber, I have been packing with that EXACT pack just lately! ( while my MMP is off being updated) Pinnacle Bros! I have been stuffing my MW4UQ and Golight Ultra 20 and some misc. clothing down in there, with my BMBH in the outer back pocket. Looks like there is room for a good bit of food, but 5 days in winter? I will have to improve my packing precision and expertise! But I think I kind of like this pack!

    How are you stuffing all those quilts and keeping them dry?

    What about pads? Mine came with a short pad in a compartment along the back. Do you use just that pad, or do you put a different or additional pad in there?

    Maybe I should move this to a new thread, instead of hijacking?

    See new thread:
    http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...459#post170459
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-13-2009 at 00:18.

  10. #10
    Senior Member animalcontrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wisenber View Post
    You don't have to have a tiny pack to have a light pack. My GoLite Pinnacle holds 4400 cubic inches. That lets me carry a lot of bulk provided I keep the overall weight down. Last Winter I backpacked in sub-zero conditions carrying a peapod, no sniveler AND an Old Rag Mtn. I slept toasty at minus 15 F, and really appreciated the second underquilt. My prefood pack weight was below 20 pounds for 5 days of Winter hiking. Lots of bulk, but not bad weight.
    a pack weight below 20 lbs for 5 days in the winter (below zero) carrying 3 quilts (quilt total weight over 5 lb)...very impressive. I can't even begin to scare that...matter of fact, I was 35 lbs for 3 days snowshoeing last winter at zeroish and was **** proud! I can't even wrap my head around sub-20lbs for those conditions...amazing. Great job!!
    I would LOVE to see a pack list
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