Indestructible sewing machine needed

[miyanc]

I have a singer 15-91. Only straight stitching. Never needed zigzag. Its an all metal machine with a potted motor. It was built in 1948 and I sew everything from silpoly to multi layers of straps. I bet it could sew leather. It took my willingness to learn how to repair it because when I bought it for 25$ it needed to be rewired. The original wires were from 1948 and even then didn't need to be done I just felt safer. If you purchase a finished I bet other then a clean and oil you should be able to run it for years.

[Life Scout]

This is all great info. I think I saw an old singer at the flea market a couple weeks ago. I'll see if it's still there and the right price. That 4423 seems like a hardy machine. I wonder if I could break it.

I usually have problems after sewing long runs without stopping. Like 12 feet when making tarps or gathered hammocks. The speed and length of run time create a lot of heat and pressure on parts.

[daneaustin3]

This is all great info. I think I saw an old singer at the flea market a couple weeks ago. I'll see if it's still there and the right price. That 4423 seems like a hardy machine. I wonder if I could break it.

I usually have problems after sewing long runs without stopping. Like 12 feet when making tarps or gathered hammocks. The speed and length of run time create a lot of heat and pressure on parts.

My 4423 or 33 or something in that family has made several tarps, uq, tq, and hammocks without a hitch. Straps - not even a hesitation. It's a beast and has already outdone the $500 brother it replaced.

Buy with confidence. I don't think you will find better machine for the money.

[FLScouthanger]

This is all great info. I think I saw an old singer at the flea market a couple weeks ago. I'll see if it's still there and the right price. That 4423 seems like a hardy machine. I wonder if I could break it.

I usually have problems after sewing long runs without stopping. Like 12 feet when making tarps or gathered hammocks. The speed and length of run time create a lot of heat and pressure on parts.

When you finally decide on your next injector, remember what you just stated... "...The speed and length of run time create a lot of heat and pressure on parts." Then think about which material can handle these stressors better, metal or plastic...

[xxl_hanger]

Inconceivable. Do you have any proof of these "predetermined" breaking points or is it just an assumption based on a lack of quality of anything made in this century due to assuming all large corporations want to steal your every dollar?

We know that there is a severe worldwide price competition on the sewing machine market since centuries. Almost all German manufacturers who produced high-quality precision sewing-machines closed the doors or went bankrupt because of that. (Only Dürkopp-Adler is still alive in the field of industrial sewing machines). The same happened post war in the USA or in UK. The Singer brand is still on the market, but the company is not the same and the quality of Singer machines is by far not the same as it was a few centuries ago. Newer Singer machines are no Rolls Royce anymore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csJcARDDcdI

Today Singers are cheap machines and show poor mechanic quality inside. They are produced somewhere in Asia, most likely in Vietnam, Corea or Cambodia.

I have tried to repair a Singer 728 and a Singer 6105. In the Singer 728 a plastic gear was broken and according to my view there was no chance to repair it for a reasonable amount of money. Though I throw it away. In the Singer 6105 (made in Sicily) I found ten plastic pieces which were broken off behind the stitch length selection wheel and behind the stitch length mechanism was a plastic snail-wheel which was slightly deformed. I found the reason for this deformation. One gear shaft responsible for feed zeroing was not adjusted properly by Singer. But there was no chance to loosen one eccentric stud set screw to adjust this mechanism. There was also no chance to remove the deformed plastic snail-wheel. One nut was not unscrewable and there is also no spare part on the market. One can buy for about 20$ + shipping a new stitch length selection wheel. However, I repaired this wheel invisible with a piece of 3mm aluminum. It will never be damaged again, but the deformed snail-wheel cannot be repaired.

All machines (about six or seven) I have seen during the last couple of months from inside were much easier to repair and dismountable than these two Singer machines. In case of the Singer 6105 I had the service manual available, 130 pages long. Even that didn't help. It helped only to unwrap and understand the machine and to find the problem finally.

I have not seen a Singer 4423 from inside. I have seen a new Toyota Jeans from inside. I guess the Toyota can be much easier be repaired and I bet that all my old machines sew a bit better than your new Singer 4423.

I'm proud to have an old special edition model of a Meister ZZ made in Germany about 1950. This machine is first league and got max. points from sewing machine experts. It still looks like new. I'm most likely also proud about my new old Singer 216 G zig zag machine made in Germany 1954. I'm also proud about my Phoenix 2520 (most likely produced by Toyota or Riccar about 1978 in Taiwan. There is no single plastic wheel inside, the machine is easy to repair and it sews with its 105W motor perfectly, especially thick material like several layers of webbing). I sold my new Toyota JFS18 Jeans almost without any loss. The machine was not bad but for the money I got three better machines and a lot of additional extras. Now I love old sewing machines and I know why. I sewed all my gear with my Meister ZZ and with the hand wheel of this machine only. It behaved like a Swiss watch very smooth. For the good results I got no motor was required.

[coderpitt]

I've been using an Elna 3005 for the past 15 years. I've sown upholstery, curtains, covers for my reloading machine, halloween costumes, scout uniforms, etc. I've had it serviced once in that time just to make sure it's running ok. The higher end or industrial machines are much better than the lower end machines from the box store. That being said, you can replace a couple of machines for what a higher end would cost unless you find one at a sewing shop that was traded in and serviced. Ebay's an ok source, but you have to know what you're getting and make sure you can get parts if needed.

[Morticiaskeeper]

Look for something old, Singer or Pfaff.

Singer 15-91, 99 or the wonderful 201k. Pfaff 230 or 260 if you REALLY need zigzag.

[Mister~E]

Plastic is taking over everything and plastic failure is to blame for many poor designs. I get that. However, without these cheap and highly customizable plastic parts we'd be decades behind where we're at today. Is that a good or bad thing, not sure? What puts older sewing machines in a league of their own is that they were forced to design around metal and so most parts are way over designed and the cost of that over designed part is passed on to the consumer. I have not looked but find a new machine composed strictly of metal today and I bet it is very expensive and very costly to fix.

Today many parts are analyzed computationally in order to determine the max stress/strain a part may exhibit during normal operation. The Singer 4423 is one those machines that was designed properly in an era where cheap plastic parts dominate. Is this Singer 4423 cheap? Yes! Does that infer that the quality of the Singer 4423 is poor? No!. Does Singer "today" design around intentionally having a critical/expensive part fail after so many hours/cycles so you are forced to replace your beloved machine? That's crazy thinking. These aren't toothbrushes.

Yes, if you want a solid machine that will last many years and is way over designed (definitely not a bad thing in this case) scour eBay/craigslist or whatever for a used old beauty. I definitely enjoy quality pieces that look great and are way over-engineered.

If you want a new inexpensive reliable machine that you could pick up at a local store today or receive in the mail in two days then the Singer 4423 gets my vote. No, they probably don't compete with some of the old time goodies but they probably come pretty close.

Ah heck, all this jibber jabber probably just jinxed my 4423.

[xxl_hanger]

I think Singer built very good zig zag machines too. The zig zag mechanism was in fact developed by German Singer engineers. One of the best early Singer zig zag machines were the Singer 206, 216 and 316 machines. Later Singers like the Singer 401 or 411 are also good ZZ machines (a bit noisy perhaps).

I avoid Pfaff machines because of two reasons. Machines like the Pfaff 230, 260, 330, 360 are not cheap on Ebay (at least in Germany - I see a lot of cheaper alternatives, at least as good as Pfaff and easier to repair) and there are already plastic parts built-in. And most of these old Pfaff machines need a new condensator for the motor. I would prefer a Pfaff 130 build during the years 1930 to 1950. Later Pfaff 130s have also plastic parts built in.

One of the machines I would prefer to any Pfaff maschine is this Brother machine shown in video.

This might help you
https://youtu.be/M4OXMvUUQh8

In Germany this machine is available as "Quelle" Privileg Voll Zick Zack Automatik Typ 610 (made by Brother) but it is very rare. This machine has a very long life expectation and there is normally no reason to sell it. Similar machines build by Brother or Maruzen in Japan were also sold by Kenmore.

Another good "warhorse" zig zag machine (as Pfaff alternative) is a Meister 110 as shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwxCgbGJeUQ

Perhaps I get one for below 25€ next week. I'm sure I could use this machine the next 50 years or even longer without any problem. It needs cleaning and a little oil. That's all. This is quality made in Germany.

[Life Scout]

For the heck of it I went to the local thrift store and picked up a 1977 sears kenmore 158.18033 for $5. Needs a pedal/plug assembly found it for $40 online.