Do you use permethrin?

[Grumpy Squatch]

Concentration depends on how you apply it - spraying vs. soaking for instance. See http://jme.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/5/829.abstract for one Army experiment from 1988. They used a 0.5% spray-on concentration and a 0.125%/m^2 "impregnant" solution. These people (http://link.springer.com/article/10....1193304#page-1) used 4ug/cm^2.

I read this and figured it really mattered more WHAT you spray and treat than the concentration though. Thought this was interesting (my emphasis added) https://jme.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/2/327.full:

No statistically significant differences in number of tick bites were detected between commercial permethrin treatment (19.33%) and the do-at-home permethrin application method (24.67%). The success of permethrin-treated clothing in reducing tick bites varied depending on the specific article of clothing. Subjects wearing permethrin-treated sneakers and socks were 73.6 times less likely to have a tick bite than subjects wearing untreated footware. Subjects wearing permethrin-treated shorts and T-shirts were 4.74 and 2.17 times, respectively, less likely to receive a tick bite in areas related to those specific garments than subjects wearing untreated shorts and T-shirts. Ticks attached to subjects were classified as alive or dead before removal. On subjects wearing untreated outfits, 97.6% of attached nymphs were alive, whereas significantly fewer (22.6%) attached nymphs were alive on subjects wearing repellent-treated outfits. Results of this study demonstrate the potential of permethrin-treated summer clothing for significantly reducing tick bites and tick-borne pathogen transmission.

So I spray my boots and socks every time I go out, DEET my legs quickly, and soak my shorts and t-shirts at the beginning of the season and then not again.

Good luck.

[OneClick]

I've always been against this stuff, and even repellents used on skin simply because they don't work for me...at all. But I added a bottle of the Sawyer permethrin to my amazon cart and may pull the trigger. This may be the year for a summer hike for me. I'm sure it will be 109% miserable, but I have a feeling I won't be able to wait until fall this year. Head net, lemon eucalyptus repellent, pants and long sleeve shirt is all I can do I guess.

[Xtrm tj]

Concentration depends on how you apply it - spraying vs. soaking for instance. See http://jme.oxfordjournals.org/content/27/5/829.abstract for one Army experiment from 1988. They used a 0.5% spray-on concentration and a 0.125%/m^2 "impregnant" solution. These people (http://link.springer.com/article/10....1193304#page-1) used 4ug/cm^2.

I read this and figured it really mattered more WHAT you spray and treat than the concentration though. Thought this was interesting (my emphasis added) https://jme.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/2/327.full:



So I spray my boots and socks every time I go out, DEET my legs quickly, and soak my shorts and t-shirts at the beginning of the season and then not again.

Good luck.

Grumpy do you have success with your process?

[lvnv1212]

Insect shield allows you to send in your own clothes and they treat it. This is what I do
http://www.insectshield.com/?&gclid=...fONRoCp3Lw_wcB

[Grumpy Squatch]

Grumpy do you have success with your process?

No idea. There is no effective way for me to measure whether I would have had a tick bite without doing it ... I have no "control" me in the woods at the same time without the treatment to compare to. But by my calculus, the risks of using Permethrin and DEET are minimal, the probability of encountering ticks where I live high (my wife found one the other day after just getting the mail and I spend a lot of time in the woods both for fun and as a volunteer for a local conservation organization), and the pain and inconvenience of contracting Lyme are high (been there - headache and fever sucked for days), so I do it.

[Bootleggn]

This is nontoxic to humans at a 20:1 ratio? I'm leery of things like this.


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[Wkerber]

Yes, I use the Martins and mix my own.

[Carrico]

They said roundup was safe for humans too that turned out to be horse pucky. What conserns me about this stuff is I can't find any long term studies on humans, how ever the short term studies I've found done on small mammals shows an increes in tumors. I would imagine using it topicaly on your outer wear would be safe enough, but soaking your clothes that touch your skin all day in it? To each their own:-)

[Gadgetgeek]

Its used as a topical treatment for scabies in humans, so there is research that way. Metabolite studies from treated clothing suggest that you don't absorb much if at all from clothing, and even if you do, its broken down in the first layers of skin, and the the metabolites are not considered toxic, and a water soluble, so you just urinate them out. Its also the basis for many veterinary treatments, with pretty solid results there as well. I can understand someone not wanting to take US Army research at face value, but their methods are reproducible. To be honest my bigger concern is buying anything from sawyer since I don't think they are that honest of a company, but that has little to do with this particular product and its usage.

Personally since I'm out all day, everyday and where I live there are multiple mosquito borne illnesses, and the potential for tick borne ones, I don't want to mess around. Besides, soaking in DEET everyday gets gross when you can't shower. I'm happy with the level of study that's been done on it, I think its solid enough for me, and most of the negatives I've read come from the "anti-chemical" crowd, so I'm not too worried about that. The potential long term effects are well outweighed for me by the reduction in disease risk, and the convenience factor of not being chewed up by bugs.

[MrJames]

Yes. Absolutely. I live in a high risk environment. Outside I wear treated crew socks bought directly from InsectShield. Two pairs of work jeans sent in to them for "factory treatment." I use Sawyers 24 oz. trigger spray on other items, boots, other outdoor shoes. One niece and one nephew got Lyme Disease down in VA. Treated with the antibiotics later after the bites; long term effects not known yet. One friend's daughter here, a RN, got Lyme Disease in PA, with an unhappy outcome. One of my relative's lifelong friends, she was a brilliant university graduate and is now seriously sick on and off, joint pains, semi crippled, mental degradation and more.

This is what you're dealing with.
DEER TICKS ACTUAL SIZE.jpg