Travellerwith a footbox or netless blackbird

**ref103** · 02-06-2010, 22:18

i like free bird but you might get sued from skynard! hopefully they aren't as bad a gene simmons. you all have to expect that the cost would be more than the traveler because there is more material and more production hrs. the great selling point for the traveler is the price for the consumer and the simplicity for the maker. i think it's a great idea but maybe 20$ more which most here are willing to pay but is the average joe.

**angrysparrow** · 02-06-2010, 22:33

Originally Posted by mak52580

Sure the Traveller is lighter, but for an extra 4-5 oz, I'm sure people would sacrifice it for the footbox and shelf.

You don't gain any comfort from the footbox, since the Traveler lay is already the same as the BB. And you can already get as much storage as the shelf by adding a 2Q Peak Bag and/or Ridgeline Organizer to a Traveler.

Is the appeal that you want the side tie-outs? I find that hard to believe, since many people seem to not even stake those out.

**Barefoot Child** · 02-07-2010, 05:50

I agree with AS on what he said, why add a another hammock to get something you many people don't use by guying out, and why not just buy the 2Q pocket. You'll be money ahead and still get what you want. Brandon, stay with just two versions now...at least that is IMHO but you got to keep in mind that HYOK might mean a third version. :rolleyes But anyways I really like my traveler, and the next hammock will be either another one for my son or a BB for he or me.

**Hobbit** · 02-13-2010, 10:39

Originally Posted by angrysparrow

You don't gain any comfort from the footbox, since the Traveler lay is already the same as the BB.

What does the foot box offer if there is no gain in comfort? Is it extra wiggle room for the feet? I have tried a BMBH and the freedom of movement for the feet is quite apparent as they are not pressed to a side. Perhaps this is the same with the foot box? I haven't been able to figure this out from photos videos etc. Thanks.

**Wags** · 02-13-2010, 10:58

perhaps your down won't get compressed and your feel will be able to stay warmer?

**BillyBob58** · 02-13-2010, 13:00

Originally Posted by Hobbit

What does the foot box offer if there is no gain in comfort? .....

Same question.

**angrysparrow** · 02-13-2010, 13:05

Originally Posted by Hobbit

What does the foot box offer if there is no gain in comfort?

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Same question.

Well, nothing. The footbox is a triangular piece of fabric that attaches the body of the hammock to the netting. It is clearly seen in the first attachment in post #4.

If you put that same fabric on a non-netted hammock, it might serve to prevent the foot of your top quilt from draping out of the hammock, but I don't see much other purpose.

**krugd** · 02-13-2010, 14:00

Let me preface this by saying I have never seen a real WBBB (though I am hoping to see one at the Hoosier Hang.)

I built a clone along the lines of what IHangnBankhead shows in post #6. The material added at the foot is a triangular shape, with two sides of the triangle sewn to the edge of your hammock and the other edge, facing up, forming the new edge of the hammock (and sewn to the bugnet, but irrelevant to this discussion.) The outcome is that the right edge of your hammock is effectively shortened (because the sum of any two sides on a triangle is longer than the third side. Sorry, mathematics prof!

) This seems to cause the following structural change in the hammock and its lie:

1. The right edge of the hammock being shortened lifts higher than the left (entry) edge.
2. The material hanging below the upper edge of the triangle is longer than the edge above, and so looser than the material above, and tends to droop down, forming a trough where you want to put your feet.

So, it seems to me, that the addition of this material to the hammock allows you to have a flatter lie than you would if you were not to add it.

I have also have considered adding a similar, smaller 'headbox' to the left (entry) edge to similarly allow my head to lie lower that it now does, but am afraid I might not be able to enter and exit the hammock easily. Perhaps I'll try one with WallyWorld material when I get to the end of my current project lsst.

**angrysparrow** · 02-13-2010, 14:34

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

the lay should be the same for both...

Originally Posted by krugd

So, it seems to me, that the addition of this material to the hammock allows you to have a flatter lie than you would if you were not to add it.

Interesting observation.

I wonder if the dimensions of your DIY triangle don't exaggerate the looseness in the foot area? (Not that that would be a bad thing.)

**krugd** · 02-13-2010, 14:58

I wonder if the dimensions of your DIY triangle don't exaggerate the looseness in the foot area? (Not that that would be a bad thing.)

That's possible, as I said I have never seen the WBBB. There used to be plans for a DIY BB in the forums (since removed, I believe.) I followed these, so don't know how closely they conform to one of Brandon's BBs.

But, even if Brandon uses different dimensions, the result should be the same - one side of the triangle is always should be shorter than the other two, resulting in some change in the lie of the hammock. I suppose he might not use a triangular piece, but I can't visualize how any insert would not have this effect. Perhaps his dimensions just cause a subtle, hardly noticeable change?

Before building the hammock this way I used a couple grip clips and some paracord to shorten the edge of my diy hammock, without sewing. This clearly showed the effect of dropping the feet down.

Until I read Brandon's comments, above, I thought this lowering of the feet was the whole point of the footbox. Then the shelf is cleverly designed to allow the bugnet to be symmetric - essentially it adds the missing length back into the edge. A really nice design!