Help predicting and picking a winter TQ

[slbear]

Hello helpful hangers,

I've got a chill this time of year with my 30F EE Revelation quilt. Living in SoCal it's often enough insulation for my typical trips, but when temps approach or dip below freezing, I wish I had more downy goodness. For reference, I have a 20F Incubator and a 20F Phoenix, so if I was headed for the mountains and/or snow (as I hope to do this season) I could stack those UQs, but would like to have a single TQ that can be an alternative to the otherwise perfect 3 season TQ I have.

Here's my conundrum. If I get a 0F quilt - which I can get discounted, it will probably be too much quilt except on those few exceptional nights. If I go for a 20F Burrow, it might as well replace my current quilt for most of the year, but I will be nervous (still) on the coldest (low teen) nights. If I add 2 ounces to a 20F quilt - I'm in between, but it's probably the same price as the 0F sale quilt.

I'm not looking for sympathy (or laughs) from your northerners at my meagre winter temps - just experience/advice. As usual, I'm over analyzing any purchase over $50, and this one is 5-6x that. I think it comes down to this. Should I take the sale priced 0F reg/wide HG Burrow with the sewn footbox, because it will keep me warm at any temps I'll see, and it's a good deal? Or will that be a burden when the predicted 20F temps climb to 35 instead of dipping to 10? Am I better off with a 20F (maybe +1 or 2 oz), paying a little more, but having a slightly lighter quilt?

thanks in advance for your help.

(analysis paralysis) Slbear

[Otter1]

It sounds like you only want one TQ. If you don't want two, then...

You say your "typical" trips are ones where your current TQ works fine. I say sew up the footbox (or plug with a sock if you want to keep the versatility). Bring a good puffy jacket (I prefer Montbell UL layers, but there are other good choices) and pants if conditions warrant. Next, you should sell your 20f Incubator (keeping the Phoenix for typical trips) and buy a 0F Incubator.

Underside insulation is almost universally accepted as the greater contributor to overall warmth so a warmer UQ with a versatile top layering system should work most of the time. Layers work when not sleeping, and in my opinion work exceptionally when sleeping too, so why not? The proposed system will keep you warm while adding versatility for venting and for various trips.

On one colder than typical trip for me and my 30F Revelation (current baffle design is warmer for me than the old style), I brought two down puffies (both Montbell: ExLite Anorak and UL Down inner parka) plus the down pants so I was still light and more than warm enough. I would have brought one puffy jacket and no pants anyway for warmer trips. Works for me.

[Countrybois]

Or..... Get a Costco down throw and make a top quilt out of it to supplement your current TQ on cold nights.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[slbear]

Hi Otter1,

Actually I was trying to talk myself into a second (winter) TQ, but your logic is compelling and I could spend that $300 on other fun things. I see you are from FL - do you get North to colder weather this time of year?

I have a Uniqlo puffy and also an REI down vest. For snow and/or high mountain camping I also have a Patagonia Fireball jacket. My EE TQ has been comfy to high 30s, but cold below that. I had not added layers underneath. My blood has thinned a lot since I moved here from Northern Indiana 30 years ago, and I'm out of practice, but clearly I'll want those insulated jackets for the evening temps that would lead to a night in the low teens. One problem we often have in SoCal is the limitation on wood fires, so I'll need to dress warm anyway.

Giving up the incubator is not an option - it's just so cozy and perfect for my car camps and colder backpacks. Trading it in on a 0F incubator is worth considering. I'm not sure I'm there yet, but I get the point that you want more on the bottom than the top. Do you think stacking the UQs is a bad idea? I can see it would be lighter to have a 0F Incubator, but I'm fighting the urge to design my only kit for those exceptional nights.

Adding a couple of ounces to my TQ is another alternative I've thought about. Maybe that plus the puffys will solve my problem 99% of the time?

[MattK]

Or..... Get a Costco down throw and make a top quilt out of it to supplement your current TQ on cold nights.

This...

For $20 and ~12oz you could probably increase your TQ rating by ~10*. Atleast, that has been my experience. I have taken my 3.6oz Apex TQ (typically rated at 40-45*) all the way down to 24* by adding in the Costco liner, down booties, and my down hoody. Plus, if you go that route, you would then have a TQ you could use on it's own during the summer for 50*+ weather. All that of course depends on your propensity for DIY.

Barring that option, I think a liner and/or some insulated clothing (hood/jacket, booties) would be the best option. That way you don't have a quilt that's overkill 90% of the time, and you don't end up with another quilt that fills the same slot as your current one. I usually find that I like a more modular system anyways, as I can wear insulation around camp to stay warm, then crawl into more layers at night. If you have a 0* bag though, you have to bring insulated clothing anyways for camp.

[slbear]

I just heard back from EE about adding down to the Revelation I got from them 2 years ago...

$20 Flat Rate For Shipping and Labor
Between $8 and $14 Per Ounce Added (Depending On Your Down Type)

I don't know how EE makes their 30F quilt. I think HG takes a 40F pattern and overstuff 2 oz, but doesn't change the baffle height. EE may have more patterns - over analyzing again! The question is how much extra down does it makes sense to add. It sounds like for less than $50 I could add 10F to my current comfort level.

Is no one going to enable my urge to purchase a 2nd TQ? This is very unlike a typical HF thread, but my wallet is cheering you on!

[SilvrSurfr]

When I bought my first quilts, an HG Burrow 20* and Phoenix 20*, I thought they would be the last quilts I'd ever need. They worked from 70* F down to about 30* F, but didn't do very well at 13* F, no matter how much I tried to supplement with clothing, etc. So after two years, I bought some 0* quilts - problem solved, except I didn't want to always carry 20* or 0* quilts. So then I got 40* quilts.

Bottom line is that you can buy quilts rated for the temps you'll experience, or you can try to get by with one or two sets of quilts and supplement. However, you'll have to try various supplementing tricks to make it work, which may result in you carrying more weight than you otherwise would if you just had the right quilts. Personally, I didn't care for supplementation tricks, so I just got the right quilts for the job.

It's definitely more expensive, but I let my insulation do its job and I don't have to worry about stretching a few more degrees out of it. I still use my 20* quilts probably 70% of the time, so the 40* and 0* sets aren't getting utilized as much. About the only rule I follow is that my quilts need to be rated at least 10* warmer than the expected lows. That works for me 90% of the time, but last weekend I brought my 20* quilts when expected lows were 33* F. Unfortunately, it got down to 27* F and my feet got cold. The 10* buffer is not always correct - I once went out expecting lows of 18* F, but the overnight low was -3 *F. Thankfully, it was car camping so I stacked my 20* and 0* quilts and was toasty warm.

[Otter1]

Hi Otter1,

Actually I was trying to talk myself into a second (winter) TQ, but your logic is compelling and I could spend that $300 on other fun things. I see you are from FL - do you get North to colder weather this time of year?

Yes, I have been to Colorado and the Mid- Atlantic areas primarily. Coldest I've been is 17F on the ground, 23F in the trees.

Shug has a video (I believe) on stacking underquilts. It works for him. A bit more fiddle-factor though.

[slbear]

When I bought my first quilts, an HG Burrow 20* and Phoenix 20*, I thought they would be the last quilts I'd ever need. They worked from 70* F down to about 30* F, but didn't do very well at 13* F, no matter how much I tried to supplement with clothing, etc. So after two years, I bought some 0* quilts - problem solved, except I didn't want to always carry 20* or 0* quilts. So then I got 40* quilts.

Bottom line is that you can buy quilts rated for the temps you'll experience, or you can try to get by with one or two sets of quilts and supplement. However, you'll have to try various supplementing tricks to make it work, which may result in you carrying more weight than you otherwise would if you just had the right quilts. Personally, I didn't care for supplementation tricks, so I just got the right quilts for the job.

It's definitely more expensive, but I let my insulation do its job and I don't have to worry about stretching a few more degrees out of it. I still use my 20* quilts probably 70% of the time, so the 40* and 0* sets aren't getting utilized as much. About the only rule I follow is that my quilts need to be rated at least 10* warmer than the expected lows. That works for me 90% of the time, but last weekend I brought my 20* quilts when expected lows were 33* F. Unfortunately, it got down to 27* F and my feet got cold. The 10* buffer is not always correct - I once went out expecting lows of 18* F, but the overnight low was -3 *F. Thankfully, it was car camping so I stacked my 20* and 0* quilts and was toasty warm.

Thanks SilvrSurfr...That's the retail therapy I'm talking about!

I like the 10F rule, and have seen you express it before (and lately). That's about the only reason I would consider a 0F quilt.

You or others must have experience using a winter quilt when it turns out balmier than expected? Much like your 20F TQ experience, my 30F TQ works great from the high 30s to the 70s when I don't need anything on top. It's currently light enough that I'm not looking at a higher rated quilt for the warmer months. Does the 0F quilt also have that large range of usefulness, or does the sewn footbox and extra bulk become an issue when it's say 35 or 40F because you picked a warm location or the weather changed?

Thanks again all for your feedback.

[SilvrSurfr]

You or others must have experience using a winter quilt when it turns out balmier than expected?

When I need to loan my quilts in warmer weather, I always take the 0* quilts because they don't bother me. I've used 0* quilts in the low 70s and didn't need to vent. Unfortunately, they are comparatively bulky and weigh much more.