Cinch Buckles Permanently Attached To Webbing?

[Eidson]

I haven't seen this idea come up too frequently and it has been quite some time since I've stumbled across any threads here that show this setup used.

Cinch Buckles on a small permanent webbing attachment.

Here is the sticky Thread which pretty much shows what I'm referring to

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and Dream Hammock also sells a version Here

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I've used the large majority of hardware based suspensions that are out there and used plenty of whoopies before, but cinch buckles are fairly new to me. I understand and have read plenty of threads about potential issues, slipping, webbing fraying and such, but I don't see the above setup used.

I look at this as a very simple suspension setup that can easily be converted to multiple hammocks, unlike cinch buckles attached to amsteel, and it has a large field of adjustment. You'd only gain a small amount of weight and the minimum length is only increased a relatively small amount with the permanent webbing attachment size. The buckles would also be restricted from sliding around, which I've read plenty about, and causing the webbing to fray if they slipped to the side.

I'm not at all concerned with weight and just thought the buckles on webbing would make a very simple setup for younger hangers while still allowing the easy flexibility of swapping out suspension types on the hammock. If amsteel continuous loops are installed on the hammock, you could easily swap out to a biner, multi-buckle, attach a whoopie sling, etc....

Since I never see this used, I guess I'm curious if there are any other problems with this setup as opposed to simply using an amsteel attached buckle.

Thanks for any advice or speculation.

[dscotthep]

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This is *exactly* how I do my hammock-side suspension. The webbing loop is larks-headed to the gathered hammock and a separate tree strap wraps around the tree, through it's own sewn loop and into the buckle. Easy-peasy!

[Eidson]

This is *exactly* how I do my hammock-side suspension. The webbing loop is larks-headed to the gathered hammock and a separate tree strap wraps around the tree, through it's own sewn loop and into the buckle. Easy-peasy!

Nice! I hadn't even thought about larks-heading to the hammock itself. Even more flexibility with them.

Is it just the grams of added weight that we don't see this setup mentioned here that much? I'm intrigued and strongly considering this setup on my daughter's hammock, especially with the ease of switching suspensions in the field and the ease of use of the buckles themselves.

[blackbishop351]

I went through this exact thought process when I first considered using the CC buckles (I was among the first to do so, so there wasn't a lot of field testing to fall back on).

There are a couple general ways to attach them: buckle-webbing-hammock, buckle-cord-hammock, and buckle-webbing-cord-hammock.

The problem with the first one is, how to attach the webbing to the hammock?

Do you use a ton of extra webbing and simply tie a knot like Ed Speer used to? Too much weight, too unreliable.

Do you sew a loop in that end as well, and try to larkshead to the hammock? If you pay attention to how your tree straps act when they're under load around a tree, you'll see that load-bearing webbing is pretty stiff - and therefore doesn't form a very tight larkshead. Conclusion: too much risk of the webbing slipping off the hammock under load.

The problem with the third one is simple durability. Your cord won't slip off your hammock, BUT... under load, using a loop or a larkshead of small cord into a loop of webbing will form quite a pucker, and stress the webbing and the loop stitching in ways you really don't want it to.

The problem with the second is, how to attach cord to the buckle in such a way that it keeps the buckle straight?

My answer (I know Dutch does this differently, but I don't like his approach): a prusik knot. You're using cord on the hammock end, no slippage. There's no webbing to tear up in between. The width of the knot and direction of the load give the buckle several axes of stability. I've been using my buckles this way for years, never had any problems.

Anyway. Just my .02.

[dscotthep]

FWIW, I sewed my own webbing/buckles and my loops (opposite the buckles) are a little bigger than DH's. And my larks heads are tight enough that removing them later has taken significant effort. I used the same design for the hammock suspension for my Boy Scout troops hammocks. If it can survive that kind of abuse, I'm confident they are perfectly reliable.

All my inspiration for this setup came from Just Jeff's homemade gear page. This was probably several weeks before I stumbled on HammockForums!

[Caminante]

Or larkshead it through a sewn channel and it doesn't really matter how tight it is as it can't slip off. But in the larkshead scenario, I'm missing what the advantage is over Amsteel which is lighter and more flexible. In either case, should you want to swap out suspension, you have to undo a larkshead.

If the hammock already has a "naked" CL that you want to keep permanently attached, yet be able to swap in a cinch buckle, then I guess it makes sense, although Amsteel would work in that scenario, as well, so I suppose it would come down to preference for sewing vs splicing.

[blackbishop351]

Hey, HYOH man. I just posted what I do with MY setup and MY thoughts behind why. Bottom line, I don't like getting dumped on my butt. Been there enough times already.

For every instance of unnecessary risk or failure, there will always be five guys chiming in and saying it works just fine for them.

Again, just my .02.

[Eidson]

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts so far. I'm glad to see the differing opinions and ultimately what works for some may not work for others, but these keep my thought process going as well.

I went through this exact thought process when I first considered using the CC buckles (I was among the first to do so, so there wasn't a lot of field testing to fall back on).

The problem with the third one is simple durability. Your cord won't slip off your hammock, BUT... under load, using a loop or a larkshead of small cord into a loop of webbing will form quite a pucker, and stress the webbing and the loop stitching in ways you really don't want it to.

Anyway. Just my .02.

Your .02 cents and experience is very valued in my book

The durability of the webbing stitch was in the back of my head and I could see this becoming an issue after long term usage. One solution I had considered was a light weight biner in the attachment chain.
So it would be hammock's attached continuous loop-carabiner-stitched webbing-buckle-tree strap.

I'd say at face value this seems way over-complicated and I'm just seeing how many pieces of hardware I can use (maybe I can throw some adutchables on the tree strap, ), but the usage still seems simple and very sturdy.

If the hammock already has a "naked" CL that you want to keep permanently attached, yet be able to swap in a cinch buckle, then I guess it makes sense, although Amsteel would work in that scenario, as well, so I suppose it would come down to preference for sewing vs splicing.

I have definitely considered the detached amsteel version as well, and I generally do prefer splicing. However, my unfamiliarity with using the buckles had me leaning toward the webbing after reading about the strap eating issues on a sliding buckle. I know the multiple wraps of amsteel, whether prusik-ed on or spliced with multiple wraps, should eliminate things sliding but I thought the webbing might provide even more security against this. I could very well be overthinking it after reading "horror" threads where only a few people mention it, but since it is for my daughter, I just wanted to error on the side of caution.

I'd guess there isn't any truly fool proof method out there, as someone could always mess one up, but I was just curious about some of the alternatives.

[Caminante]

I have definitely considered the detached amsteel version as well, and I generally do prefer splicing. However, my unfamiliarity with using the buckles had me leaning toward the webbing after reading about the strap eating issues on a sliding buckle. I know the multiple wraps of amsteel, whether prusik-ed on or spliced with multiple wraps, should eliminate things sliding but I thought the webbing might provide even more security against this. I could very well be overthinking it after reading "horror" threads where only a few people mention it, but since it is for my daughter, I just wanted to error on the side of caution.

I'd guess there isn't any truly fool proof method out there, as someone could always mess one up, but I was just curious about some of the alternatives.

I get it. I did the cinch buckles spliced to Amsteel with 5-6 wraps on my 7-yo's hammock, and it seems to work for her. We're careful to make sure everything is lined up before putting any load on it, and so far so good. I recently helped a neighborhood girl sew a hammock and we prussik'ed the Amsteel loops to cinch buckles which so far seems to be working, but no idea on longevity.

I saw that Dutch released his "daisy chain" webbing today which, combined with appropriate carabiners, might be the ideal solution for youngsters. All the ease of Atlas straps without the heavy weight. I'll probably order some and try it out.

https://dutchwaregear.com/woven-dais...n-webbing.html

[Eidson]

I saw that Dutch released his "daisy chain" webbing today which, combined with appropriate carabiners, might be the ideal solution for youngsters. All the ease of Atlas straps without the heavy weight. I'll probably order some and try it out.

I had originally planned to pick some of this up when Dutch first confirmed he'd be getting some, then RBTR went and released their OutdoorINK webbing....I can't bring myself to give her black straps when every other piece of her setup is so color customized. It's the dang custom webbing that started my whole problem with the suspension questioning
I know, crazy problem to have.