Grappler whoopie hook

[Just Bill]

I've been out of the suspension nerd game for a bit, lol.
My soft shackles- I believe they are closest to, if not exactly, Tac-Blades 'Improved Soft shackle'. I'm not up on which version he's on at the moment but I know he has improved his improved ones a few times now, lol.
Grizz always had me in awe of his crazy splicing systems as well.

In amsteel the Soft shackles are easy to use... in dynaglide they get a bit hard to pick open at times. What can happen after a bit is you start picking open the dynaglide a bit.
For 2g... a few spares can come in handy regardless... but it bugs me to lose stuff.

Buckles and biners for me when it doesn't count, lol. I use those car camping or winter camping for sure.

I was doing the loop with prussic on the non loaded side of the UCR. What I didn't get into was the 'small rope on bigger rope'. From what little I read/followed it sounded like that was a vast improvement. The whipping looks less pain in the butt than the built in prussic loop.

On the wet or piney strap solution...
Ever look at an air pad type stuff sack? They've got that little internal pocket for the repair kit. I either do one of those out of WP material in each end of the Double ended stuff sack... or I do a mesh pouch on the outside when I want to get fancy. So when you break down the suspension just pokes out each end like it would normally- then you tuck the straps into their own attached pouch without removal. The kevlar sucks up less water too so I found that a bit less of an issue than traditional webbing.

That's been my solution to the detachable suspension system... don't detach it.
At least for a specific model for a specific customer. The thing is rigged and ready to rock.

In reality for folks like us always swapping... it's easier to have one or two suspensions you can interchange. But for the speedy folks they won't mess around with them... they want one and done.

I'll have to get a picture of one of my tarp rigs if I can find it... between moving states, getting a storage shed, and now a sewing shop I don't know where any of my SUL stuff is. This fat boy has been at a desk or sewing machine too long to do any fast and light trips. So thinking a good time to start fresh and look at where folks are at today. I'm probably a few years out of date.

But basically- (I know you hate bungee prussics) I had a bungee prussic on the working side of the dynaglide whoopies. So the tarp doesn't have it's own RL but is attached to the whole shebang. On a decent enough day- I just pack it all up set up. If needed I unclip the tarp to pack it wet. Lotta fast and light stuff is done in summer/autumn anyway so not pitching the tarp or even skipping the tarp is more common... So I was always geared to hammock first then tarp... but you can pull them together if that makes sense. Once one tree is clipped up, you can clip on the tarp and pull both double ended bags at once so you are keeping the hammock mostly covered if setting up in the rain. That's where that dynaglide soft shackle gets extra fumbly when you're holding hammock, tarp, and wrapping the tree in the rain, lol.

Course those systems were all Primaloft Gold based so I didn't have to get too fussy regarding any water issues. I've slept a few times in the rain with those quilts and no tarp on the ground. In the microbridge you have to roll over to dump the water out. And boy does your quilt sag when filled with rain pooling it. I can tell you the DWR on Membrane 10 is pretty impressive though!

I'll have to look at the SLS more again... it seemed like a version of my system but detachable hammock rather than tarp.
Might be good for personal use... but pretty splice heavy for any kind of production system.

[Dutch]

While we are having fun with suspension this is forma while back. I really liked it.

[MikekiM]

But basically- (I know you hate bungee prussics) I had a bungee prussic on the working side of the dynaglide whoopies. So the tarp doesn't have it's own RL but is attached to the whole shebang. On a decent enough day- I just pack it all up set up. If needed I unclip the tarp to pack it wet. Lotta fast and light stuff is done in summer/autumn anyway so not pitching the tarp or even skipping the tarp is more common... So I was always geared to hammock first then tarp... but you can pull them together if that makes sense. Once one tree is clipped up, you can clip on the tarp and pull both double ended bags at once so you are keeping the hammock mostly covered if setting up in the rain. That's where that dynaglide soft shackle gets extra fumbly when you're holding hammock, tarp, and wrapping the tree in the rain, lol....

I'd like to see some pics of this if you can locate them.

I could retrofit bungee prussics into the end of my UCR to facilitate attaching the tarp.

I woke up this morning thinking... I like the idea of a single line suspension, but I really like my current suspension and don't want to change from it.. yet. So any solution for a single line would have to build on what I have.

I am hardware free in my suspension with the exception of the MSH toggle. The setup is inspired by Grizz's hardware free detachable setup, but sort of reversed.

Currently it's either 6' or 8' Kevlar straps (I have both) with amsteel grappler hitch at the tree. I've used dynaglide grapplers and a double dynaglide grapplers and both are too small form my hands in the best of conditions, so I ditched them for the amsteel. They are far easier to use than soft shackles, and I can't lose them. Plus, I have a diamond knot fetish.. All good. I've been meaning to shorten the straps for about two years and just haven't made it a priority.

I like the whoopie hook/grappler hitch hybrid because is basically what I have made easier. Clip the hook and go. But then I have to deal with separation anxiety when removing the diamond knot from the grappler hitch. I'll need counseling for sure.

Amsteel ucr attaches to the kevlar strap via MSH. There's probably a 100 other ways to do this.

The ucr terminates in yet another diamond knot that is captured in the amsteel CL with a sliding whipping knot.

It's elegant simplicity, hardware free and modular. Everything can be connected with my eyes closed, by feel. If I'm in a short hang, the entire ucr can be omitted and the kevlar can go direct to the CL via beckett hitch. This is where the idea of going to a single line suspension hits a road block for me. Everything I have considered thus far, with regard to the SLS is incorporated into the ucr. So what happens if I am in a short hang and remove the UCR from the equation?

For now, until we make progress on the SLS, I am going to replicate what I have in Dynaglide. I used dynaglide with loop aliens for a season and had no issues hanging from it.

[Just Bill]

While we are having fun with suspension this is forma while back. I really liked it.

Thanks Dutch... Figured I wasn't alone, lol.

I think if I recall correctly this was the suspension/idea that inspired Grizz on the 'minimal' strap idea? I know it was your idea regarding a shorter piece of strap on the backside and then (in his case) a short whoopie on the short side of the hugger and then the suspension on the other side.

Maybe combining the two makes sense... or did before Kevlar.
A short whoopie in this set up with a hook on it would let you use a 2' strap and adjust for any tree size. Still a good system perhaps for those who run into lots of different diameter trees.
That's the only concern with the one I posted earlier. If you really caught a monster tree you'd have a hard time rigging an extension cleanly...

Course you can always simply walk to another tree in my book, lol.

[Just Bill]

I'd like to see some pics of this if you can locate them.

I could retrofit bungee prussics into the end of my UCR to facilitate attaching the tarp.

I woke up this morning thinking... I like the idea of a single line suspension, but I really like my current suspension and don't want to change from it.. yet. So any solution for a single line would have to build on what I have.

I am hardware free in my suspension with the exception of the MSH toggle. The setup is inspired by Grizz's hardware free detachable setup, but sort of reversed.

Currently it's either 6' or 8' Kevlar straps (I have both) with amsteel grappler hitch at the tree. I've used dynaglide grapplers and a double dynaglide grapplers and both are too small form my hands in the best of conditions, so I ditched them for the amsteel. They are far easier to use than soft shackles, and I can't lose them. Plus, I have a diamond knot fetish.. All good. I've been meaning to shorten the straps for about two years and just haven't made it a priority.

I like the whoopie hook/grappler hitch hybrid because is basically what I have made easier. Clip the hook and go. But then I have to deal with separation anxiety when removing the diamond knot from the grappler hitch. I'll need counseling for sure.

Amsteel ucr attaches to the kevlar strap via MSH. There's probably a 100 other ways to do this.

The ucr terminates in yet another diamond knot that is captured in the amsteel CL with a sliding whipping knot.

It's elegant simplicity, hardware free and modular. Everything can be connected with my eyes closed, by feel. If I'm in a short hang, the entire ucr can be omitted and the kevlar can go direct to the CL via beckett hitch. This is where the idea of going to a single line suspension hits a road block for me. Everything I have considered thus far, with regard to the SLS is incorporated into the ucr. So what happens if I am in a short hang and remove the UCR from the equation?

For now, until we make progress on the SLS, I am going to replicate what I have in Dynaglide. I used dynaglide with loop aliens for a season and had no issues hanging from it.

On the dynaglide shackles- I think you nailed it... finger size is the factor.


Not the greatest pic- but it was handy.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Apygyt54yYPwg412jKb0-_VCygIOaQ

Posting this link so you could potentially zoom in on the suspension on the left. This one is setup for a bridge so the whoopie loop is open for a biner in this case on the hammock side.

This is in the shop- so the whoopie is "backwards" from my previous descriptions. But concept is the same.
Nothing fancy- you just put a prussic of either shock cord or accessory cord (the sterling 1.5mm works decent on dynaglide) on the loop of the whoopie and that's where you clip your tarp.

With the gathered end- I like the fixed eye side of the whoopie to double as the CL for the hammock (if counting grams).
This does two things- it gives me a little lead from the hammock before getting to the adjustable portion of the whoopie. This lets the non working tail of the whoopie then double as water break too.

I can also put on my hammock Ridgeline (adjustable or not) directly at the hammock (rather than up by the tarp) which keeps it lower for using it as a clothesline or for a RL bag etc.
I like having the small separation between tarp and RL. If I recall correctly some of the SLS systems lose that functionality?

With the bridges (or if you want to retain modularity)- you could do the whoopie as shown... fixed eye to the tree strap hugger. Open loop to the hammock. Attach the loop to the hammock with your connector of choice.
The biner or whoopie hook or soft shackle (or... to infinity) then acts as your water break but the disadvantage being it might be inside your tarp. That's not a big deal on the bridges because the whole suspension is under the tarp and there's no place for it to go... but on a GE you could get a condition where the water worked it's way to your UQ suspension or bug net, or whatever.

The only real hurdle for my system I have a hard time with for hammock folks is NOT having a drum tight tarp.

The tarp has no ridgeline. It can be tightened up fairly decent.. but you aren't pinging marbles off that thing... but that's intentional too.
Things have come a long way with fabric recently but guessing many remember that when you want SUL fabrics (that were not cuben) that we had to deal with fragility, lower hydrostatic heads and other issues.
If you take a SUL fabric, and then reinforce it, and reinforce it, and triple the seam allowances and patch it, seal it, tape it... it ends up not being so light any more.

If you back off the drum tight philosophy just a bit you can make a willow tree instead of an oak.
If the tarp isn't razor tight it doesn't need the highest possible HH.
If you aren't 3-1 mechanically advantaging your RL and tie-outs then they don't need quintuple stitched glued laminated patches.
If your tarp isn't anchored to resist hurricane force winds then if it gets windy it can blow around a bit in the wind.
If you aren't staked down at all... no stakes to blow out.

That may not be much of a great rig for car camping or when in camp for long periods of time. Don't get me wrong... I admire that big ol tarp and pole mods and beautiful cat cut smooth pitch, pucker free rig too.
But in terms of ultralight backpacking rigs... if it's raining you're usually hiking in the rain. With speed hikes... you're hiking or sleeping. Sometimes you poop.

That said... with the tarp detachable you can always set it up as a tarp. SUL or not... I always have a little cord and a few TI skewers just in case. So you could throw it up in a quick canopy or a-frame mode on the ground to cook, get a break from the rain, or to dry out for a bit. You don't need to unpack your hammock to put one tree strap on the tree and use it and a stake to make a quick diamond shelter either.

But when it's bedtime you just batten down the hatches on a bad day- or run a line over to a tree on a good one or in a light rain if you want porch mode of a sort.
And if it's really blowing around... if you're hanging from a tree odds are decent you can pick up a stick and make a stake or two if needed.


https://1drv.ms/f/s!Apygyt54yYPwgv9bQ5CS5vO5rvqlfQ

I did find a folder of my winter tarp system for the micro bridge. I carried this in spring time too when needed for the extra coverage.
You can see some of the suspension parts in this.

You can also see the toggle system I use for tarp tension at the RL on some of these. So no mitten hook or clip. Just pass the toggle into the pinched whoopie and the weight of the bridge/gear typically holds it in place if I'm doing things yet at camp. Once in the bridge the toggle can't pop back out. The toggle is more reliable in the field passed through the prussic as well.

On the flipside... mitten hooks do break. But they are cheaper than tarps. So sometimes in a truly crazy light rig you might be better with a cheap point of failure too.

[Just Bill]

You know...
It occurs to me I (mainly) have a SLS with the Big Guy and Lux Bridge now.... I've just broken it up to make it simpler for customers.

With a few splices it can go to a pretty solid SLS and I think I can keep an option to detach hammocks in there.
Bling or bling free as you prefer.

If you jump to about 50 seconds where that goofy fella is yapping about pretty biners.... if you look at the tree strap you can see the prussic loop and mitten hook on the strap for the tarp.
With the big bridges... I use a fixed end/side and one adjustable side.

If you jump to about 1:45 and ignore the talking table cloth droning on...
Instead of Adjustable Ridgeline- replace that with fixed RL.
Instead of carabiner- replace that with spliced loops.

You could splice a piece of bling there (whoopie hook, bridge hook, Bias Anchor, etc) to hook your hammock of choice on.

Basically picture that long run of splicing I use to build each side of the bridge and then borrow a trick from WV and turn one dog bone into a whoopie sling and you have a true single line with clean connection points at your RL distance of choice.

Do one end fixed to the strap (non-adjustable) with a grappler hitch or any hardware variation of choice.

The other end- strap is the same but you could then splice the whoopie side of the SRL to the strap or use your UCR of choice.
I might even give the advantage to the UCR in that rig.

Still 'my style'... meaning the hammock, not the tarp gets the RL... but very few parts and pieces involved... and could be done hardware free too.

[Just Bill]

Here's what I'm thinking-Grappling with a Grizzled WV.pdf

This would make a truly single line in the whoopie version. When completed you'd have one long single piece of rope (made from three pieces with lots of splicing).

The only removable parts would be your prussic loops for the tarp. You don't want those fixed... and a few shock cord loops with mitten hooks come in handy generally so a spare or two is likely in the kit.

You could splice your cont. loop or similiar right into this.

But if you want the removable hammock option that adds two components (sorta)
I put that diamond variant in for those of you with extreme fetishes.
BUT... in theory a CL with a diamond is part of the hammock so it's not really any extra pieces so plug in the diamond to the loop- do your final tension on the SLS and you're locked in.
So maybe I am developing a diamond knot curiosity myself.

Put the UCR variant with a potential twist in there.... in lieu of whipping the non-working end of the UCR- what if that was your tarp prussic? In terms of where you would want it in your system... That's about right as far as location. And that would put the UCR and it's tail under the tarp and build in a drip line.

With a removable hammock option... I see no reason why you couldn't break this into two bundles:
SLS with tarp already attached.
Hammock with UQ and TQ or whatever you like.


About the only drawback I can think of is (mildly) limited site selection.
But that could be alleviated with a bigger tree strap or a variation/combination of Grizz's adjustable micro strap and Dutch's video above to give you pretty infinite tree size options.

But a 6' hugger could always be wrapped a few times around a tree to tighten things up. If we're talking Kevlar you're not taking much of hit for adding 2' of webbing per side and adding 4' of length to the total system.

I'm liking this...
There's something from just about every Suspension master in there... Grizz, Dutch, WV, and Phantom Grappler.

[MikekiM]

Lot's to digest here.. I like what I see in the pdf.
Also, I find it interesting that you suggested in the video to use just one whoopie in tandem with a fixed tree strap. I have to noodle that a little...
i notice that my ucr configuration is inverted relative to yours. It might make a difference considering where the tarp prussic needs to be.

To my comments about the diamond knots.. I find them so convenient to work with. In Amsteel, the size is fine even with cold hands. In Dynaglide it's just reaching frustration levels, depending on the application. But I have to admit I have them on all my kit.. my trowel, camp towel, thermometer, and even at the hammock pullout points, all in micro cord. The guy lines for the hammock, also in micro cord, simply larkshead onto the diamond knot. I have the diamond knots all over the place. They are my mitten hook and male/female doohicky replacement. I connect loops to them with larkshead, sliding locked whipping, sliding beads, a piece of silicone fuel line hose with zingit threaded through it...etc.

[Just Bill]

Lot's to digest here.. I like what I see in the pdf.
Also, I find it interesting that you suggested in the video to use just one whoopie in tandem with a fixed tree strap. I have to noodle that a little...
i notice that my ucr configuration is inverted relative to yours. It might make a difference considering where the tarp prussic needs to be.

To my comments about the diamond knots.. I find them so convenient to work with. In Amsteel, the size is fine even with cold hands. In Dynaglide it's just reaching frustration levels, depending on the application. But I have to admit I have them on all my kit.. my trowel, camp towel, thermometer, and even at the hammock pullout points, all in micro cord. The guy lines for the hammock, also in micro cord, simply larkshead onto the diamond knot. I have the diamond knots all over the place. They are my mitten hook and male/female doohicky replacement. I connect loops to them with larkshead, sliding locked whipping, sliding beads, a piece of silicone fuel line hose with zingit threaded through it...etc.

Might as well ignore most of my blathering out loud while I worked my way to the PDF. Picture is worth all my words, lol.

Been a while since I built a UCR that wasn't for a RL... I think I have the direction correct for what I'm thinking but perhaps not.
Guess it depends how you want to do it. I was thinking the running line on the tree side, UCR on the hammock side... so perhaps not truly a single line but it would increase your options in a smaller hammock or short RL bridge without having to toss in any spare dogbones or force you to get too clever if you end up in a bad spot.

I'm personally not all that picky and rarely find myself forced into a given setup unless I'm car camping... in which case all of this drama is a moot point anyway, lol. Big ol straps and biners come rolling out and I've done the big guy bridges 30 odd feet (nice thing with a bridge is you don't have to reach as high up the tree).

I switched to the single whoopie with regard to the Bigger bridges (medium and large) With a roughly 12' and 10' tree to tree minimum on those I found that I could hang easily around that 16' tree to tree mark that seems ideal. With a dog bone or picking at least one skinny tree I can do about 20'. It also works fine for a speed hike system since you're just looking for any two trees to fall asleep. If you don't give a crap about your view or the aesthetics darn near any two trees will do to fall on your face and snooze.

Unless it's a truly SUL trip... the extra whoopie is in the pack. But it stays there.

RE your diamond knots... we all have our little obsessions with our kits, lol. You're in good company with Grizz on that one. I still find it mind boggling all the clever little things that can be done.
Though some of it looks on the level of tying your own flies at times with regard to the micro stuff, lol. But obsessing over bridges is no less healthy so pot, kettle, black here for sure.

[sqidmark]

... (nice thing with a bridge is you don't have to reach as high up the tree)...

For solo trips (as opposed to double hanging) a shorter lightweight bridge has a lot of appeal to me. Since I can't reach very high to begin with, a bridge does give me that advantage over a GE.