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  1. #21
    Senior Member Floridahanger's Avatar
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    Congrats to Dream Hammocks and the Smurfs. Very colorful little aliens. I love that there are so many little items that are becoming more useful for my hammy and hiking. Very cool.
    Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you

    My fantastic Photographer wife: http://www.capturedhearts-photography.com

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyRandy View Post
    Good question. Thanks for looking out. So is this something that would show some early signs or wear before failure or something that would typically fail all at once? I ask because we could gather some feedback from folks who have been experimenting with this already to see if they spot any signs of wear upon close inspection.
    https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...he-speed-hooks

    The problem is you can't really see it. I think part of the nature of the beast so to speak. The amsteel cordage will kink, but you can massage it out so there isn't any visual impact.
    The individual fibers are damaged, but the rope as a whole looks okay.

    What Dutch is describing roughly- Say you hang at trees 14' apart for this weekend. Next time you go out they are 16' apart. The point of 'failure' is where you hung last time. (about a foot up the line between hugger and hook). If you hung on trees 12' apart... then the damaged portion wouldn't be loaded... it would be on the slack end of the hook.

    I don't know the individual thread count in dyneema cordage- but say it's a 100 strands in 7/64" and each hang you damage one or two...how long can you go before you bounce it broken.

    That said... 'Failure' means that you've dipped below a 4 or 5 times body weight safety factor.
    Not a completely unworkable product if you're really pushing... but not a good product for general use.

    In one sense... the speed hook was a loop alien stripped down to it's core function. A piece of metal to pin a bight of amsteel against.

    In another sense... the large diameter and likely better finished edges (plus the opportunity for multiple wraps) on the loop alien may be enough to spread the load and reduce or even eliminate the damage.

    The loop alien is basically a miniature figure eight (for climbing) with rounded edges... much better than a hard 90* edge. You can run climbing rope through a figure 8 for the life of a rope- but trash that same rope in just one rappel off a sharp rock edge.

    I'm also picturing another common climbing mishap... running a flat webbing anchor over a leading edge can nick an edge of it and cause the webbing to unravel or tear well below it's load rating.
    So my concern with webbing is you're more prone to load an edge of it and perhaps nibble away it's strength.
    On the flipside... with rounded cordage you may have enough radius to achieve what the speed hook couldn't... a smooth enough bite.

    One option may simply be oversizing your cordage (to increase safety factor).
    A light feller who could normally use dynaglide could bump up to 7/64".
    A bigger fella like me could use 1/8".
    So even if there is a 10% reduction (roughly what Dutch reported) you should be able to get a 100 night season in easily and still be within a reasonable margin of safety.

    I'm very firmly in the SGT. Rock camp with regards to suspension. So I'm not looking to poo-poo the idea, just want to better understand the limitations so I can work within them.

    There are a lot of appealing things with this system (especially with webbing) but as one approaches 200 lbs or more in weight it gets messier.

  3. #23
    Senior Member GadgetUK437's Avatar
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    It is bend radius that kills rope, both with knots and hardware. The bend radius thru the alien is much larger than thru the speed hook.
    I will get a video out with close-ups of the method I use, so you can see how the line runs thru the alien.
    I (and my friends) have been using this system for over 3 years (still using the same Amsteel), and I'm 210lbs and my friend Mike is nearing 250lb. I know it's not a large sample set, but I'm happy with it.
    I would be interesting to hear from those who have had failures of the cord/webbing with this system.
    In the meantime, here is an overview of the system I use with both Amsteel and dyneema webbing,
    https://youtu.be/K2remMHDIBo

    https://youtu.be/l5_2khFFw5g


    --
    Gadget

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK437 View Post
    It is bend radius that kills rope, both with knots and hardware. The bend radius thru the alien is much larger than thru the speed hook.
    I will get a video out with close-ups of the method I use, so you can see how the line runs thru the alien.
    I (and my friends) have been using this system for over 3 years (still using the same Amsteel), and I'm 210lbs and my friend Mike is nearing 250lb. I know it's not a large sample set, but I'm happy with it.
    I would be interesting to hear from those who have had failures of the cord/webbing with this system.
    In the meantime, here is an overview of the system I use with both Amsteel and dyneema webbing,
    https://youtu.be/K2remMHDIBo

    https://youtu.be/l5_2khFFw5g


    --
    Gadget
    Perhaps Bob is indeed my dear mum's brother!

    I'd have to look harder, but I believe your initial feed is different than other uses?
    Point being you aren't using that first bend in quite the same speed hook like manner I've seen with the Ridgeline or other tension methods.
    It's a bit off to me as that would be how you'd miss feed a figure 8 for a rappel as that rope on rope friction would burn the rope... but perfect application here.

    Besides being a tight radius- the speed hook relied on a single hard bend and pinning of rope on rope on metal.

    The initial pinch of rope on rope on metal happens after your first wrap... despite the rest of the alien if you stopped there you'd just have a basic speed hook. (how the Alien is normally demonstrated)

    But being able to add two or three more thicknesses of rope pinned between the standing line and the alien over the large radius loop greatly reduces the pinch produced on each individual strand. You're laying your weight over 3 diameters of line. In fact it looks like the primary tension coming over the wraps from the standing line falls roughly in the center of the loop alien. So three wraps, passed twice each over that face (backside in first video) actually means 6 diameters of rope pinned against the metal by the standing line with the standing line bending over 3 diameters.

    If I follow it all correctly; that's the key difference.
    This is functioning a bit more like a rappel rack than a figure 8 https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Professi...escenders/RACK

    Because of what you're doing- webbing may indeed be a better use here as you'd increase rope on rope friction. What's your experience/thoughts on the webbing?
    I could see it getting too bulky and perhaps becoming counterproductive if you couldn't get 3 good clean wraps without spilling the rope.

    20' of 1.5g webbing and 8.4g of TI is getting appealing.


    Though I could see a 4 wrap dynaglide perhaps doing the job if I'm feeling naughty and thinking of my single layer M10 hammocks.
    Granted that's if this light bulb in my head has screwed in properly without burning out.

  5. #25
    donig's Avatar
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    I still use my speed hooks, and haven't died yet, or killed any amsteel before it's time. So, YMMV.

  6. #26

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    I canít wait to get my TiXLís and play with them. They should arrive Thursday. The interesting thing about the LoopAliens is that they can be used in so many different ways.

    I was playing with some of the TiUFA versions and found out a really, really neat way to use them! I havenít seen anyone else use it like this and it might only be possible with the UFA versions, but I will be trying to apply it to the TiXL when I get it too. Regardless, if it proves effective for a CRL, Iíll post a thread explaining my idea.

    So is there any way to get a TiUFAXL version like the inventor displayed in this video below? Would it be strong enough to use for hammocks as well?
    https://youtu.be/eopy2m54FQM

  7. #27
    Senior Member Floridahanger's Avatar
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    I also still currently use a SH since the first production cycle and I just changed out my Amsteel lead this year. Not for lack of strength, but to change color on my head end.

    There was visible wear on the individual strands but very little before I made a change in how I secure the lead. Now, instead of taking the tail and making a half turn before slipping over SH, I first double over the line so the tail is going back towards the SH where the line comes out of the hole, then give it a full turn. This puts a lot of line in the bight to increase the diameter of the turn.

    Seems like the LoopAlien will be a little faster with less twisting.
    Enjoy and have fun with your family, before they have fun without you

    My fantastic Photographer wife: http://www.capturedhearts-photography.com

  8. #28
    Senior Member GadgetUK437's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Because of what you're doing- webbing may indeed be a better use here as you'd increase rope on rope friction. What's your experience/thoughts on the webbing?
    I've used the long 2g/ft dyneema tree strap, that I demonstrate at 4:45s in the second video, for over a year with no dramas. It still slides to adjust, in the same manner as Amsteel. I have also used it with the bulkier polyester webbing, it fits, but it's less convenient. I'm looking forward to testing my new Spider Web 1.5g/ft tomorrow.



    --
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