Originally Posted by SilvrSurfr
Anyway, I love my neoair xlite!
That's true! I live in both worlds, although I'm more excited with hammocks!
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"Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it.”
― Winston S. Churchill
On your high end list you didn’t account for tent poles or trekking poles for the tent. I know a lot of people carry trekking poles but not everyone.
Also when I camp in a tent I found my hammock top quilts are too narrow and I had them made without pad attachments so I had to purchase a wider quilt with pad attachments which weighs a few ounces more. So the assumption the top quilts are equal might not always be accurate.
Just an observation, these posts never seem to be “apples to apples”.
Last edited by raggydoo; 12-05-2018 at 17:04.
I think you made a decent comparison but another thing that can't be factored in there is the learning curve to hammock camping. Sleeping in a tent on the ground is intuitive for most but learning to get comfy in a hammock as well as learning about suspensions, hang angles etc. can take time and someone trying to compare the two systems should take this into account IMO.
Don't let life get in the way of living.
These comparisons to me are like trying to mix oil and water... if I'm going to hammock I choose appropriate gear for that sleep/shelter system and the same if tenting. In either case, as a certified gram weenie I'm going to select the lightest, feasible combination for the given conditions.
Hammock kit is generally (but not necessarily!) going to weigh more than tent, but in my experience it is often only a tiny amount more. For instance, in warm weather one could choose a combo such as a Dutch Halfwit, Venom or Spider straps (use J-bend or Becket, no hardware), LLG Operator quilts, HG DCF tarp and barely tip the scales at 2 lbs flat for the whole kaboodle. I have a ground setup that is a teensy bit lighter than this but isn't anywhere near as comfortable.
Yes, weight and cost are obviously concerns, but IMO these differences are minuscule when considering the other factors for choosing one system over the other. Having been forced to go back to ground (shelter floor, actually) for exactly one night (per Baxter State Park regs) since taking up hammocking, I can tell you which one I choose!
Five Basic Principles of Going Lighter (not me... the great Cam Honan of OZ)
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” ~ Gen. George S Patton
I might not have articulated it well in my post, but this is exactly my point for conclusion #2. All to often I have heard that with hammocks vs tents you need to trade-off weight for comfort. However, at the mid-level (where I am, and I think a lot of people are), that is just not true. If you have a been a hammocker for a long time you probably understand this, but I think this is a gross misconception outside of this community. I just wanted to show someone who might be getting into hammocks that tents are not necessarily the lightest option for people who are weekend backpackers with the occasional week long trip (like myself).
On a side note, one thing I love about hammocks compared to tents is the ability to upgrade. I started off with a budget level hammock system, but then did a small upgrade here, small upgrade there, and have made my system progressively better (close to the mid-level I listed). Sure, occasionally you have to drop a decent amount of money on UQ, but mostly it has been suspensions, hammock body, ridgelines, etc. It's been fun.
It seems ever since Ray Jardine wrote his book, many have mis-focused their efforts - much to the delight of outdoor gear retailers. If you've seen the movie, "Wild" - that's what it was like. We didn't carry all the unnecessaries Cheryl carried; but our packs were that big, our shoes were that heavy ... and we LIKED IT.
If you are trying to set a record, hike over 25 miles a day, etc. then focus on "performance". But why not just do that on a tread mill? You probably won't have time to stop and admire a waterfall, soaking in the healthful ions. Or stop to scan the trees and find that Flicker or eagle you hear.
Comedians make a living making jokes about the current batch of young adults and their "hardships". I remember watching a a millennial have some soup with the spoon end of his Spork (spoon/fork) then going to turn it around to use the fork and realizing the spoon end he was going to hold was now dirty/sticky. How much simpler to carry a separate plastic fork.
I'll gladly carry a Collapsible Pole (https://www.rei.com/product/845322/r...rp-pole-single) weighing a whole 13 oz. just to have the comfort and simplicity of putting a tarp in porch mode.
I look at today's sleeping pads - back in my day they were called Air Mattresses and cost about $10. Now they are over $100 - for essentially an air mattress. And now they are filled with some "High Tech" material not that much different from mylar strips. So any little movement causes loud crushing sounds in yours ears. Give me a CF pad or older therm-a-rest any day.
I could go on but then I'd be "caught" too - focusing on all this new "stuff". Really, does it matter if your shelter is 2 lbs or 2.5lbs (or even 3 lbs.) is one pound or less going to stop you from that 10 mile hike? If one pound is going to make the different between have a great experience outdoors and becoming critically fatigued, then I'd say you are playing too close to your fitness edge.
This is how I do it ... I noticed when on the ground camping, my adventure partner would have to climb over me at night to get out the door. So I looked around and found that Marmot made a tent with a door on each side. It allows either of us to make a night time visit with minimal disturbance of the other person. I didn't worry about the weight. I can carry any "normal" two person hiking tent (not the big Colman "stand up" kind). And with our hammocks we each have our own real estate.
I've mentioned before that if Ulta-lite is your thing, it is fun to get involved. Just like it is fun to get involved with ham radio, trains, stamps, etc. But if you do not actively pray at the Church of Ray Jardine, then just figure out what you need to be comfortable, pack it up, and go outside.
Here's an exercise. Find something that weights a pound and put it in your pocket and carry it around for a day. Will you know it is there - yes. But will it stop you from doing anything you were intending to do - probably not.
Unless it is really "your thing", don't get hung up on ounces. Rather than spent that money on something that is 2 oz. lighter, use it for a gym membership and get stronger. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Last edited by cougarmeat; 12-06-2018 at 19:19.
I like your statement, cougarmeat!
You said much in a few words!
Thanks
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"Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Completely agree with this - I was fairly overweight the last few backpacking seasons and to compensate I went full ultralight. It helped, but now that I'm down 50lbs from where I was in the last few years an extra lb or 2 has no impact on me. Getting in shape will always outweigh those few oz. (Although, it still doesn't stop me from wanting to buy the latest UL stuff, lol)Unless it is really "your thing", don't get hung up on ounces. Rather than spent that money on something that is 2 oz. lighter, use it for a gym membership and get stronger. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Yeah a healthy weight is important, easier on joints, more wind, etc. But it's still no replacement for losing weight in the pack.
The strongest, fittest person will still have a more enjoyable trip with a 20lb pack compared to a 30lb pack, in general. They may not even know it. That's just how it is. No one ever wants to add weight for a more comfortable pack.
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