Frameless backpacks - do they work for hangers?

[DawgU]

Thanks. Curious in comparing the weight of a Conduit w/ a pad versus the best of UL internal frame packs. Which one comes out lighter? I understand there is multi-use advantages to the pad, but just for starters, how does the total pack (frameless w/ pad vs. internal frame) compare?

[hangnout]

Conduit and pad around 26 oz

In general, I think you will find that a frameless with a short pad will be lighter. Everybody has to do what is right for them but you could be headed for some miserable hiking if you don't evaluate all your other equipment first. Can you get below 20 lbs for everything in your pack? Frameless packs are less forgiving and all the ones I have used go from comfortable to miserable very quick. It really is not about the weight of one item but the total of a system. The pad usually is a safety item in cold weather so the weight is dual use. Just Jeff was pretty dead on in his reply about bulk and packs.

I went through a couple "UL" packs internal and frameless and couple miserable hikes because I looked at the weight of the pack and other items not the entire system. I would have been better off with a 4-5lb pack than trying to push the limits of the UL packs before the weight of everything I carried dropped low enough.

You can tell I still remember those hikes!

To keep this hammock related, My DIY hammock and JRB tarp contributed to lowering my bulk and weight to the point this pack works for me.

[ringtail-THFKAfood]

When you call the pack a "frameless" pack you have defeated yourself.

Every day a combination of pads, tent poles, ThermARest chair kit, SlingLight chair, and compression must be used to create a virtual frame.

A Moonbow Gearskin (24.4 oz.) with a RidgeRest and SlingLight chair frame is comfortable at 55 pounds.

A Six Moon Designs Essence (19.1 oz with add on features) with a tent pole and Big Agnes Insulated Air Core frame is limited to 20 pounds.

I always carry a torso length ccf pad for extra insulation, sit pad and the option of going to the ground. The combination of compression and ccf pad gives you "enough" carrying capacity.

[Peter_pan]

Frameless backpacks have been used for centuries.... Key is to revist how to pack a pack... consider old BSA manuals.... using a system of stuuf sacks designed to act as sub divisions of the pack works well.

Pan

[Coffee]

Concerning back issues and frameless packs.

I had back surgery 7 years ago. I am using the gearskin pack at 26oz (I added 2 more straps at the top corners), my walmart ccp trimed at 12 oz, and my sit pad at about 2 oz. I am carrying 26-32 ish pounds right now depending on the amount of food and water. I have had up to 45 pounds in there on a day hike without any issues.

I pack it with the ccp shaped like a taco with the opening at the top. I put my sit pad over the top. It makes it easy to get off at breaks. The major advantage to this is that is keeps out most of the rain. The pad also helps protect my gear. Everything in the pack goes into 4 different sea to summit ultra sil bags or my noseeum stuff sack. After a couple all day rains, just the ends of the outsides of the bags where damp. Plus you do not need a pack cover.

I really like this pack. Adjusted right it feels great. Like a big heavy pillow. Just be warned. No one else hiking knows what it is, so a lot of people will ask you about it, wach day and each time you stop with people. Only one person I passed so far knew what it was.

Having the pad is nice for lounging on a beach or close to a campfire. Plus sometimes you just want to lay on the ground to stretch.

At night I just clip it into the support straps.

[hangnout]

I had back surgery 7 years ago. I am using the gearskin pack at 26oz (I added 2 more straps at the top corners), my walmart ccp trimed at 12 oz, and my sit pad at about 2 oz. I am carrying 26-32 ish pounds right now depending on the amount of food and water. I have had up to 45 pounds in there on a day hike without any issues.

The gearskin is the only "UL" pack I know of that can handle a wide range of weight. I went with ULA conduit because it was a good fit to my gear and weekend trips. The gearskin is on my list when I need to carry a little more.

[hangnout]

Hammock Engineer,

I just closed the deal on the gearskin on the thread on Whiteblaze that you commented on. Any suggestions on how you pack it with your hammock setup?

Couldn't pass it up for that price being my size. Moonbow has some interesting ideas on their website combining the gearskin with bivies, tarptents, etc. I did not see any combos with a hammock. For the price I paid I can experiment with this. Ideas anyone?

[Otter1]

Like Just Jeff, my old Golite Speed has served me well. Reducing volume has been my biggest challenge thus far, and I recently purchased a SMD Starlite since it's the same weight but bigger - for longer hikes w/more food, like my upcoming Foothills Trail hike.

I'm bringing it to the FL / AL hang this mo to play with, so we'll see how it goes.

But to answer the original question: YES, frameless packs work, and can work well.

[Coffee]

Hammock Engineer,

I just closed the deal on the gearskin on the thread on Whiteblaze that you commented on. Any suggestions on how you pack it with your hammock setup?

Couldn't pass it up for that price being my size. Moonbow has some interesting ideas on their website combining the gearskin with bivies, tarptents, etc. I did not see any combos with a hammock. For the price I paid I can experiment with this. Ideas anyone?

I would definitly not pack it like that. I think that would result in a very wet hammock. I put my hammock in a sil stuff sack. That goes into a sea to summit ultra sil bag. All my gear other that I do not want to be wet in a plastic bag, then the sea to summit bag. I use 4 sea to summit 20L bags, and 1 mesh stuff sack. I pack it by putting my ccp in shaped like a taco. Then clip the side buckles leaving a lot of slack. Then I add the stuff sacks. Then I clip the top buckles. Then I tighten the whole thing.

I cut a butt sized sit pad off of my walmart ccp. That goes on the top on the pack. The pic on the thread about my thru hike shows it a little. That acts as kind of a roof to the ccp. When I tighten down the sides only an inch or less or the stuff sacks show. I have made it through a lot of prolonged heavy rain with all my gear dry.

I should add that I added 2 straps to the pack that don't come standard. They are on the corners on the top of the pack. I noticed that the gear would poke out a little. It is also on a radius with a lot of area with no strap. I think it works a lot better.

The pack takes awhile to get used to, so don't get discouraged early. On the top straps, tighten them so the buckle is in the middle of the top of the pack. Then adjust the load lifters as needed. I think that works the best with the load lifters.

If you have any more questions PM me with them and your email address.

[hangnout]

Thanks for the input. I agree about not using it that way. Good luck on the thru and keep the input coming on how the hammock and gearskin are working on it.