Dutchware quilted chameleon

[sloanie]

I watched Dutch's livestream where he dove a little deeper into the quilted Chameleon and how it's made, how it differs as a "quilted" hammock from "insulated" hammocks, etc.

My interest in the Chameleon was in hopes that we'd see a wide version since no one makes a wide insulated hammock. Unfortunately, the Dobby fabric only comes in standard widths as well and is a key to the structure of this particular hammock. On the other hand-- it's always possible we'll eventually see a wide version of that fabric, while it seems less likely that the fabrics needed for other brand insulated hammocks will ever come in wider formats. Who knows.

Dutch really has been working on this for many years; my take is that this is hammock is very much optimized for weight (both the lack of need for an extra layer of fabric especially), as well as integration with pre-existing Chameleon accessories.

[sloanie]

The "quilted" hammock seems to be a trend right now - perhaps fostered by the success of Superior Hammocks. But some things are driven by marketing. For example, Hennessy's move to zippered entry in addition to their "Classical" bottom entry. In the kayak world, as soon as British-designed boats started appearing with what they called a day hatch (which mostly only a skilled contortionist could access), many other manufacturers started adding a similarly placed hatch on their boats.

Sure, it's handy to deal with one item (quilted hammock) instead of two (UQ + Hammock), but what are you giving up? The weight may be about the same, in some cases a little heavier. Because, with my "added" UQ's, I can opt for full size or ¾ size. Also, Instead of needing a hammock for each temperature range, I can pick the hammock I want and add the UQ for the prevailing conditions.

If I could have only one hammock, a quilted hammock - probably in the 20 or 30 (if I want to skip winter) degree range would work. But being able to swap out hammocks and quilts isn't all bad.

Here's what's interesting to me... under quilt design hasn't really changed much for the last several years. We have a lot of vendors making solid under quilts and they all function very similarly. There just has not been much innovation in this realm really. And for many, they work perfectly fine.

Honestly I've never really had CBS with standard under quilts. What I do have trouble with is the UQ sliding off my feet or shoulder. I'm tall and use long / wide hammocks, and no matter how much these cottage manufacturers swear all you need is 44" wide etc., it's just never worked for me. Maybe it could-- but just not with existing hammock and UQ designs. 6-8" of additional width helps, but those still invariably slip off too. (Quilt hooks were a step in the right direction but they still don't keep the quilt in place for me).

So naturally an insulated hammock solves this issue of quilt movement for me. But I'm left with the issue of not quite having the size hammock I'd like. Even 6" wider might do the trick. But, I guess I'm used to falling a bit outside the mainstream and wanting niche products that most don't need.

[cougarmeat]

On the other hand, you probably don't need a stepstool to reach a shelf in the cupboard. Life = trade offs.

[Rambler_]

After watching some more videos on the quilted chameleon I now see the weight of an 11’ 40 degree model is 850 grams, or 29.98oz I believe. So someone correct me if I’m wrong but there’s not much in weight savings compared to the only other sewn in underquilt hammock I know of (superior gear). The 11’ 30 degree (so colder temp rating) comes in at 30oz on their website.

[HangingOut]

I'm guessing the performance will be closer to the Wooki than the SG in that the area cover by the insulation is similarly limited.

After watching some of the quilted-chameleon vids I would agree with this assessment, given its contoured shape and diagonal positioning similar to the wookie there could be wiggle prone cold spots in the chameleon also.

I have partially solved this problem using my original 15 year old 10' Warbonnet with the 11' XL wookie. I just tie a couple of overhand knots in the main wookie body up near the footend. That makes the wookie short enough to fit the 10' black bird and extends the insulation coverage over the feet.

This is all rather sad. Warbonnet is the best hammock design ever dreamed up and Superior has wiggle proof coverage, too bad we can't get both in one integrated hammock.

[FlyingAvocado]

I just went to their configurator to see if he has listed the weights yet, and they are posted for those who signed up early. The site as of today lists the weights (without bugnets and other accessories) as:

40° - 808g
20° - 849g
0° - 998g

Dutch has said in his videos that the weights may change as they fine tune things, but as an always-aspiring UL hammocker, I have to say, so far I am pleasantly surprised. I was worried that 11' of 1.9 fabric would just make this too heavy, but I think it is a very compelling product if these weights hold true to the actual finished product and the temperature ratings hold up to their claims.

Just for comparison, I currently have a very light hammock setup using a Hexon 1.2 Chameleon (w/peek shelf and ridgeline organizer), paired with a 40° Teton Hammock Co. Cirrus "Short" UQ made with Membrane 7 -- together this comes in at 815g.

https://lighterpack.com/r/gt5xzd

Marc over at Teton Hammock Co. makes a really great UQ, but the suspension can be pretty fiddly. The Quilted Hammock would just outright solve that issue for me. Not only that, but on paper, the quilted hammock is surprisingly light and I don't think Dutch has done enough to really sell how light this thing really is. I also think if Dutch were to offer a 950 FP option instead of 850, along with a lighter quilt-bottom fabric like Argon 67 or Argon 49 then his quilted hammock will be the lightest possible hammock setup you can buy. Dutch hinted at doing something like this in the future, but possibly without the Chameleon branding/interchangeability to strip down the weight, and I am looking forward to seeing that happen as well.

My main concerns I have at the moment are, limited permeability with the tight weave of weave of the fabric, and the potentially "stiff" feel (especially compared to a 1.2 Hexon). Correct me if I am wrong here, but my understanding is that most hammocks are intentionally made with a breathable fabrics to prevent it from feeling clammy by allowing moisture to pass through the fabric and vent out. I am not sure how well the Dobby fabric "breathes," and it doesn't seem to be something Dutch has disclosed yet. I think we will have to wait and see to find out if this is an issue or not though.

Okay.. so now the $300-400 question... since I got a link today to buy one, am I going to buy one right now?

I haven't decided... yet. I am going to the SoCal Hangers Hang this weekend and look forward to continued discussions about this while there, which may sway me... or it might not. We shall see. If Dutch rolls into camp this weekend with one for us to try out, I think it would make this decision very easy for me (hey Dutch, wanna come to SoCal on short notice for a weekend hang? LOL) -- but for now, I have lots of quilts and they go with lots of hammocks -- so I will have to sleep on it. :rimshot:

[iceman857]

Waiting for the head left, foot right option. I should have never listened to Shug when he said, "Try them both and see which one works for you." Well, maybe he never said that but that's what I did.

I love the innovation that comes out of the DutchWare Gear team.

[Shug]

Waiting for the head left, foot right option. I should have never listened to Shug when he said, "Try them both and see which one works for you." Well, maybe he never said that but that's what I did.

I love the innovation that comes out of the DutchWare Gear team.

Haaaaa....well, only way to know for sure right?
Shug the Suggester

[peeeeetey]

I would like to see a full coverage quilt because I don't always sleep in the textbook position.

[Hang Williams]

Quilted vs insulated seems like a distinction without a difference in this case. It's seemingly a single layer version of what SG has done, so we'll see the comparative durability of the two solutions. Weight is surprisingly similar. I'd think the asymmetric and single layer design would lead to more weight savings.