And just when I finished making all of those loops out of zing it and have one tarp totally finished!!
Good thing I have to make another tarp...will try this knot instead of the prusik! Thanks.
And just when I finished making all of those loops out of zing it and have one tarp totally finished!!
Good thing I have to make another tarp...will try this knot instead of the prusik! Thanks.
Originally Posted by ozziepom
Yes. I would like you to expand on this too. Pictures would also be nice.
Okay - tried using the Penberty Prussic for hanging the hammock.
Ran a line of 3 mm AS-78 using the hammock stand in the basement hammock lab.
16' span.
Tied 2 Penberty Prussic knots. Also using the 3 mm AS-78. Hung the hammock from the 2 Penberthy Prussics. Since I was using some scrap pieces of AS-78, about 3' long each, I used a lot of wraps, approximately 15 for each. Figured that 15 wraps should hold if the Penberthy was going to hold at all and that if they did, I could unwrap until failure to get the minimum wraps.
Gently got in the hammock
All of the slack pulled out of the Penbertys as I was gently lowered almost to the ground.
Retied the Penberthys, removing the slack, rehung the hammock and got in the hammock again.
Same scenario as even more slack was pulled from the Penberthys.
Finally got them to hold without lowering me fully to the ground.
Penberthys could maybe be used, but they suffer from the same problem that I have with UCRs in the suspension. The first few inches of the UCR or Penberthy clamps down hard and holds and about the last 2/3 of the UCR bury or the Penberthy knot are superfluous. The only advantage the Penberthy has over the UCR for the suspension is that it doesn't have a loose end that has to be loaded. Due to the method the Penberthy is tied, the "loose" end is loaded. The "loose" end is the end opposite the hammock loading.
Unfortunately, that doesn't do any good. The UCR is a buried splice and so just slides. The Penberthy is a wrap friction knot and so the end opposite the loading just starts unwinding around the load line, spiraling around the Penberthy knot. This continues until it cannot unwrap anymore and exerts sufficient force to clamp down on the load line.
Unfortunately, while the end is unwinding, you are being gently lowered towards the ground. Hopefully the unwinding stops before you touch the ground.This always happened with me, but if somebody was to initially hang lower it might not.
I believe the Penberthy will hold the load even using 3 mm AS-78 for both the Penberthy and the main/load line.
Unfortunately, the Penberthy, like the UCR, is finicky. The UCR is touchy about having the unloaded tail held to keep it from sliding. Various schemes have been devised to accomplish this and it is probably more reliable using one of those schemes. It may be possible to devise some scheme to keep the Penberthy from unwinding. The people lacking challenges may want to try doing that.
Personally, I'm staying with the Whoopie Slings. They use more rope than the UCR which uses more than the Penberthy. But I have never had a Whoopie Sling slip. Not even a fraction of a mm. The Whoopie Sling is rock solid. It is a set and forget suspension for me. I cannot afford a finicky suspension - just not worth the hassle factor for me, even using less rope.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
I agree Tee Dee the whoopie is not broke so does not need fixing best and safest by far for the suspension.Sheer luxury never take it for granted.
As for this single wrap friction knot ,well it's ideal on the tarp ridgeline.I have been using it in a more crude form for a while.Ironically devised it due to my lack of knowlege with knots in all truth.Only shows to prove its effectiveness plus ease of use.Simply wrapping a single line of paracord 3mm several turns and then a little under cinch to lock it off.Now that you have introduced me to the fixed eye loops I am going to make some I think they will prove winners on the ridgeline.Great stuff.
One of the many great things about this site and its members is when a good idea comes along and they come along frequently dont rush out to try it as it will only be a short time later an even better solution will follow.
"Could you expand on this idea."
I'll try: Usually when you tie this knot, you'll start with a small loop in one end of the penberthy line, wrap the penberthy around the main line several times and then pass the loose end of the penberthy through the small loop (just as TeeDee describes in his original post).
For an adjustable loop, you'll need the help of something like a round tent peg or ball point pen.
Imagine the round 'rod' is the main line. Start with the small loop as before, wrap the penberthy round the main line/rod several times. Now, slowly and carefully withdraw the rod.
This leaves you with a 'tunnel' formed by the coils of cord of the penberthy line. Now, before passing the loose end through the small loop as you did before, you first feed it carefully through the 'tunnel.' Feed it through from the small loop end of the tunnel, if you see what I mean. Not a very good description, I know, but try it. If you feed through from the wrong end the whole knot will simply fall apart, so just re-try from the other end.
After feeding through the 'tunnel' just pass the loose end through the small loop that you started the knot with.
Since your rod is likely to have been a larger diameter than the cord you are using, you will have to dress the knot a bit to tighten it all up. Once done, you are left with a penberthy prussic formed around its own line and you will notice a loop of line is formed. Not the small loop that you started out with, but a larger loop that you can adjust the length of by holding the 'coil tunnel' and pulling line through. However, if you pass the loop around something solid, like a branch or fixed tent peg, and then pull on the loose end, the prussic will lock up.
All you need to do now is attach the loose end to your tarp with, say, a bowline and you have an adjustable guy line.
This is a long winded description, but actually takes very little time to do. The beauty of it is that when you pack your tarp away you can just leave the penberthy where it is ready for next time - it won't unravel.
BOB 1520:
Sorry, I don't have the facilities, (or know-how), to post pictures, but if you really are struggling with my attempt to describe the knot, there is a UK website called something like outdooridiots.co.uk that you could try. I seem to remember that they have photos posted. From memory, it's under the section about setting up a tarp.
Hope that helps.
I've never tried hanging my hammock with the Penberthy knot, only used it a few times on the tarp ridge-line to make centering the tarp lengthwise over the hammock. Where I thought it performed as well as the standard prusik or kelmheist knots.
I believe this is the link you are referring to.
http://www.outdooridiots.com/feature...k/prusik_7.asp
Where in they describe using a penberthy knot to make an adjustable sized loop to secure gear, ie a substitute for a shockcord or bungee loop. I make adjustable loops for certain uses from time to time but I've never used this type knot for making them. Though I have played around with the instructions at the above link just to learn how to tie it.
D
Tee Dee,
You might have better luck with this experiment using different type of line. The Penberthy knot was apparently developed as a climbing knot to be tied in the type lines used for climbing. I could be wrong but I think perhaps dyneema line is not used for climbing and thus the penberthy knot may not work as well on that type of line.
You used AS-78 line which is a hollow braided line
http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?rope=169
At this link - where they discuss prusik use and safety
http://www.outdooridiots.com/feature.../prusik_10.asp
they discuss applied friction and the strength of the prusik, or penberthy used on line which has strands of fiber inside the outer sheath, which the AS-78 does not. He got different results with two different types of line , both of which had inner strands.
I have used the penberthy knot for connecting a tarp to a ridge line but not hanging my hammock. But it might be interesting to continue your experiment with hanging your hammock using the penberthy knot but use a different type of line. Something more similar to what climbers use. Which might give a better result. But as has been mentioned the whoopie sling works well for hanging your hammock. But just throwing this out - in case a different type of line would work better than the AS-78.
fwiw
D
Don't forget the Adjustable Grip Hitch.
Naturally, it needs more turns for HM cordage (Dyneema/Spectra/&c.).
Thanks, but the AS-78 is what I use for my Bridge Hammocks, both on the arc and the suspension triangle and I have enough that I want to continue using for the whole suspension. I do not wish to buy another rope for the suspension.
I leave it to others that may be interested to try other rope such as maybe Spyderline.
Those who sacrifice freedom for safety, have neither.
Do not dig your grave with your teeth. (Unknown)
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