Warning knot failure! Check your knots!

**canoebie** · 09-20-2010, 14:41

Sorry to hear about your fall poppa bear. Amsteel is certainly different from rope. Backups are important. Not to be discouraging, however; I bruised my tailbone severely jumping off a cliff into the Colorado River on my 50th birthday. I would do it again if I had the chance. Took me nearly 2 years before the pain was totally gone. Nurse it, and take it seriously. Pain is our bodies telling us to pay attention. Best to you and "hang" in there.

**Poppabear** · 09-20-2010, 18:38

Thanks for the all the well wishes everyone. I truly appreciate them. I am humbled, bruised and sore but I am able to function. I went to work and had no great problems. Other than being extremely cautious of the rear area if you know what I mean. It is going to take a bit to get over but I will get through it. I do not think that my tail bone is broken as I am able to sit and walk pretty much normally. I must say that this accident has really got me reconsidering my hammock suspension system. Like I said in my post I intended to proof test all of my suspension equipment and options. When Naccra biners hit the forums I jumped on that band wagon and I like them a bunch. I have used them for tarps and other non load bearing chores. A few weeks I made up a set from 7/64 Amsteel with the idea of trying them out on a hammock suspension to try and save a few grams. That idea is now permanently scrapped. I will use nothing but Dutch Biners or something like the Camp Nano 23's. I am not taking any chances on any more knots slipping on me.

Originally Posted by BrianWillan

The moral of the story here is that Amsteel should be spliced, not knotted. Knots derate the strength of the rope and as you saw unless properly dressed with sufficient tails they will undo at the most inopportune times.

Amen to that!

Originally Posted by beep

Sobering story...with a good moral. I hope you're feeling better soon! In this case, I think we can forego the "pics or it didn't happen" part!

Thanks! I assure you it's not a pretty picture. It would scare even the most stout hearted amoung us.

Originally Posted by DannyBoy2k

I'm trying to picture this. Did you essentially make a continuous loop with a double fisherman's knot? Or did you join the lines together with a single double overhand knot, sort of like a square knot with an extra turn? Brian is right that a splice would be better, but otherwise, the double fisherman's knot would be the way to go and will not let go.

When I made the suspension up I did not even think about double fishermans knots. They probably would have worked better and not let go on me. I joined the two ends of the line and tied the both of them together with a single double overhand knot. Then threaded that resulting loop through my hammock end and larks headed it.

Originally Posted by dand76

The hammock stands always make me a little nervous with that metal bar directly below the tailbone/ backbone. I've debated looking for some sort of foam pipe insulation or something that could be used for padding.

I think foam padding would help cushion the blow so to speak. But I think it would have to be a pretty dense foam inorder to be effective.

Originally Posted by Knotty

I've said it before, NO KNOTS IN AMSTEEL.In addition to being slippery, so knots unwind, amsteel is weak in compression so knots weaken it much more than they do nylon rope.Be safe out there people.

NO MORE KNOTS FOR ME IN AMSTEEL. I've learned my lesson the hard way

**slowhike** · 09-20-2010, 18:54

A hard fall like that will make you "gun shy"... I know

**TiredFeet** · 09-20-2010, 19:32

Remembered something about knots and amsteel.

Somebody here tested the nacrabiners with at least the lanyard knot and the overhand knot. Their results for the overhand were the same as yours - it slips out. The lanyard knot didn't, the amsteel broke first at 75% to 90% of the rope breaking strength.

Also, I have found the Zeppelin Bend works well in amsteel. It has never slipped, but I have never tested it to the rope's breaking strength. It is also easy to tie and easy to adjust and easy to untie. It has become my favorite knot for joining amsteel.

**oldgringo** · 09-20-2010, 19:59

Originally Posted by TiredFeet

Remembered something about knots and amsteel.

Somebody here tested the nacrabiners with at least the lanyard knot and the overhand knot. Their results for the overhand were the same as yours - it slips out. The lanyard knot didn't, the amsteel broke first at 75% to 90% of the rope breaking strength.

Also, I have found the Zeppelin Bend works well in amsteel. It has never slipped, but I have never tested it to the rope's breaking strength. It is also easy to tie and easy to adjust and easy to untie. It has become my favorite knot for joining amsteel.

<add to favorites>...Thankee

**Cannibal** · 09-20-2010, 19:59

Poppabear, real sorry to hear about your crash. Bruised tailbones are no fun and I feel for you there buddy. Glad it wasn't too serious and it's always a good thing when you can get back in the hammock and sleep.

**optimator** · 09-20-2010, 20:06

Originally Posted by TiredFeet

Remembered something about knots and amsteel.
Also, I have found the Zeppelin Bend works well in amsteel. It has never slipped, but I have never tested it to the rope's breaking strength. It is also easy to tie and easy to adjust and easy to untie. It has become my favorite knot for joining amsteel.

First off, glad your ok! I've changed out the suspension on a few hammocks, and I also use the Zeppelin Bend. Its never slipped and I'm around 200 lbs. A great knot for connecting Amsteel.

**Brian in so cal** · 09-20-2010, 20:08

Poppabear, Sorry to hear about your tailbone. Glad that it seems to be getting a little better. Makes me rethink how high I hang my hammock. Thanks for sharing.

**Poppabear** · 09-21-2010, 07:14

Originally Posted by TiredFeet

Remembered something about knots and amsteel.

Somebody here tested the nacrabiners with at least the lanyard knot and the overhand knot. Their results for the overhand were the same as yours - it slips out. The lanyard knot didn't, the amsteel broke first at 75% to 90% of the rope breaking strength.

Also, I have found the Zeppelin Bend works well in amsteel. It has never slipped, but I have never tested it to the rope's breaking strength. It is also easy to tie and easy to adjust and easy to untie. It has become my favorite knot for joining amsteel.

Thanks for the link Tired Feet. I intend to tie up a test sample using the Zeppelin bend. You can bet I will test it 7 ways from sunday before trusting it though.

**DannyBoy2k** · 09-21-2010, 07:32

I love the Zepplin bend, but wasn't sure it would hold in amsteel. It's so easy to tie and easy to untie, regardless of the load you had on it. Now I know, so sweet!

~Dan