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  1. #1
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    SuperShelter @ 30*

    Didn't know exactly where to put this thread. As the SS is not exactly an UQ and it's not exactly a pad. Anyway:

    Well guys and gals, I sacrificed in the name of science once again last night. We had some forecast lows at or below freezing, so I thought I would sleep in the back yard, despite my previous miserable experiences when trying there. Which is to say, I usually can't sleep. But I did a little better last night, and I think I got at least four or five hours sleep out of the eight plus hours that I was in the hammock. But one thing that really struck me last night was the realization once again regarding all of the variables that relate to comfort in cold temperatures. I just recently spent a week in the mountains of Washington state, with nightly lows in the 40s. Just a few weeks ago I was at the mid Tennessee hang out with a low 43°. During none of these situations was not particularly aware of the cold. But last night, as I was rushing to set up my hammock while my wife was cooking supper, it just felt like it was freezing out there. I had to come back in and put on a warmer jacket, though I didn't bother with what was really bothering me, my legs being cold with only blue jeans on. But putting on a jacket with hood helped to the overall warmth, legs included. But the thing is, it was only 46 to 48°, although with temperatures rapidly dropping. There wasn't much wind, and I'm not aware that the humidity was particularly high. But it was a surprisingly unpleasant, biting cold. It got me downright paranoid about making it through the night comfortably when temperatures were supposed to drop another 16° or more.

    Anyway, I was determined to give it a try. I set up my MacCat deluxe in a fairly open, wide pitch. I set up my Hennessy Hammock Explorer Ultra-lite with the super shelter under cover and under pad plus space blanket. I was so paranoid about how cold I had been during setup, then I took plenty for topside insulation. I used my Cat's Meow 20° bag as both a quilt and mummy bag style. I wore, at various times during the night, my cocoon Polarguard top and bottom, some light weight long John tops and bottoms, a down vest and wool socks. I didn't, despite my paranoia, really feel like I needed all of this on top. But I not only wanted to try to use my bag as a quilt, I wanted to see how well I could get by with just clothing and having my upper body partially or completely outside of the bag/quilt. I also had as backup various items to place underneath my under pad or on top of it, just for the sake of experimentation. Since I had been so uncomfortable earlier during setup, I was really expecting to have to use some of it for under insulation. In a sack on the ground I had my HH kidney and torso pads, and extra fleece jacket. I did not set up a Garlington insulator. So, though I was expecting to add to the basic under pad/space blanket, I wasn't going to do it until I got cold on the under side.

    So I got out there at about 10:30 p.m.. I think it was maybe 42°. For some reason I was cursed all night having to get up and water the bushes an unusual number of times, way more than usual. I think the first time was shortly after midnight, at which time I noticed there was already a heavy frost on the ground and on the tarp. I was not cold on the underside, although I had been a little bit when I first got in. So I started out thinking this is going to fail quickly, but in fact after a little while I warmed up underneath. I had been in my sleeping bag zipped up, so I decided to take this opportunity to see if I could go quilt style. Though I had not felt any cold yet either underneath or on top, I decided I would go for a little extra warmth by putting my fleece jacket unzipped in the undercover and under the pad, and spread out underneath my leg/behind/lower back area. I crawled back in and pulled the bag up quilt style.

    After a couple of hours, it dawned on me that though I was not particularly cold, I was not comfortably warm either. Though I was just fine on the underside. I would call my warmth situation on the underside as neutral. It was not noticeably warm, nor was it noticeably cool or uncomfortable. But my upper body and shoulder area, which I found very difficult to get an adequate draft seal, just wasn't comfortable. I was just cool enough on top to keep me from staying asleep, especially because as soon as I would fall asleep and move the least bit, the sleeping bag used quilt style would become drafty around the neck and shoulders. So I got up again (I'm not sure of the time, maybe 4 a.m.). Even though my back had not yet been cold, I decided that since I was going to get back in my sleeping bag, I would go for more room in the bag and experiment a little more towards extra warmth on the bottom. So I took my down vest off and placed it on top of the upper body area of the underpaid, underneath the space blanket. And then I got in and went through a minute or two worth of struggle to get in my bag and zipped it up, tightening the neck draft collar (SP?) and hood. Oh yes, instant improvement! There is no doubt that a quilt is vastly more convenient in a hammock. But I also still believe there is nothing quite like the hood and neck draft collar of a mummy sleeping bag for efficiency when trying to keep warm. Even without my very thick down vest, I quickly warmed up noticeably thanks to that two plus inches of Polarguard loft around my head plus being able to seal off any drafts around my neck. My back continued adequately warm as it had been all night, and I drifted off into a couple of hours more deep sleep. Dogs barking and car doors slamming woke me up again at 6 a.m., so I decided to heck with it and just went ahead and got up. The official temperature at the airport was 31°, a thermometer on the south side of my house read 32°. A thermometer that I had with me in the back yard by my hammock read 28°. This thermometer is normally pretty accurate going by past experience. There was a very thick frost on the ground and on my tarp, and my poor yard shoes were pretty well frozen, even though they were under the tarp and hammock where there was no obvious frost. There was a pretty good layer of condensation noticeable on the outside of my sleeping bag. Unfortunately I forgot to check for condensation conditions on the under pad and on top of the space blanket.

    So there you have it. Under optimal backyard conditions, my Super Shelter under pad and space blanket, to my surprise, provided adequate warmth (though certainly not luxurious warmth) somewhere between 28 and 32°. Depending upon which thermometer you want to believe. Let's just call it slightly lower than 32°. And I was unable to be quite comfortable enough on top, around the shoulders and neck, even with my 20° bag used as a quilt along with a hooded Polarguard jacket and a down vest! But, without the vest, but in the bag as it was designed to be used, I was more than adequately warm, and plenty comfortable enough. I suspect part of the problem is the fact that I don't have an actual quilt. The top end of this mummy bag narrows a good bit from the shoulder area to the hood area, making it very difficult for me to get an adequate seal (S. P.?). I might be able to do okay with an actual quilt, or even a semi-rectangular bag used as a quilt. Particularly in combination with a separate down hood that I have. But as it is, it was just so much warmer using it mummy bag style.

    But all in all, I thought it was a pretty successful night. And I think I have confirmed that for me, the super shelter with the basic pad and space blanket only is adequate for me in the low to mid 30s, depending on conditions such as wind and rain of course. Though at some point I added some clothing to the system for experimentation sake, I never actually needed it because I was cold on my back. I just thought I would see if I can get an actual toasty warm feeling underneath me. And I could tell I had an increased warmth when I added these things, though not to the dramatic degree of instant warmth I have seen in the past when I added a pad. However, previous experience has shown me that the kidney and torso pads add considerable warmth right where you need it most, for very little weight. I had them handy but I never did resort to using them last night.



    Last edited by BillyBob58; 12-03-2007 at 14:19.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Cannibal's Avatar
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    Nice write-up BB58! I've noticed similar results when I use a sleeping bag in quilt mode.

    You need more trees in your yard.

  3. #3
    Member Big E's Avatar
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    Did your neighbor put up that big ol' privacy fence AFTER he noticed you stringing up a hammock in all sorts of weather conditions??


  4. #4
    Senior Member GrizzlyAdams's Avatar
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    back yard report

    BB58 we are birds of a feather for sure. Paranoia about cold, using insulating clothing as part of the sleep system, and so on.

    I like in particular the description of warmth from below, or lack of it. The other night it got to 25 degrees with 25 mile an hour winds from the "open end of the tarp" direction (I've got few options for pitching in my yard). The wind was whipping over my underquilt and it was Not Warm. But it was also Not Yet Cold. Like you I'd been using a mummy bag (0 degree Wiggys) as a quilt, and like in the middle of the night it was time to get inside of it.

    I slept until 7 though after that.

    Grizz

  5. #5
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams View Post
    BB58 we are birds of a feather for sure. Paranoia about cold, using insulating clothing as part of the sleep system, and so on.

    I like in particular the description of warmth from below, or lack of it. The other night it got to 25 degrees with 25 mile an hour winds from the "open end of the tarp" direction (I've got few options for pitching in my yard). The wind was whipping over my underquilt and it was Not Warm. But it was also Not Yet Cold. Like you I'd been using a mummy bag (0 degree Wiggys) as a quilt, and like in the middle of the night it was time to get inside of it.

    I slept until 7 though after that.

    Grizz
    I'll hijack my own thread: Hey, how do you like that Wiggy bag?

  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big E View Post
    Did your neighbor put up that big ol' privacy fence AFTER he noticed you stringing up a hammock in all sorts of weather conditions??

    LOL! Indeed, I think my neighbors worry about me since the whole hammock thing started a little over a year ago!

  7. #7
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
    Nice write-up BB58! I've noticed similar results when I use a sleeping bag in quilt mode.

    You need more trees in your yard.
    Aint that the truth! My lack of trees has hindered my hammock learning curve from the word go. Which is why the first time I ever slept in a hammock or SS was 10 miles into the Bridger wilderness in Wyoming on a 22* night! Which nearly resulted in hypothermia! I have adequate trees in the front yard, but that is close to the street ( even more noise ) and worries even more neighbors.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Aint that the truth! My lack of trees has hindered my hammock learning curve from the word go. Which is why the first time I ever slept in a hammock or SS was 10 miles into the Bridger wilderness in Wyoming on a 22* night! Which nearly resulted in hypothermia! I have adequate trees in the front yard, but that is close to the street ( even more noise ) and worries even more neighbors.
    Thanks for the information. I'll be trying a similar hang within the next couple of weeks. I still need to get that SS pad aligned right so I can get my ZZZs on that good diagonal.

    The only hanging trees in my yard are in the easement, between the sidewalk and street. I've been out there a few times, using my truck as both a shield and a tie-down. Had I known about hammocking 20 years ago, I would have planted a few more trees here, too.

    TWS

  9. #9
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Dubs View Post
    Thanks for the information. I'll be trying a similar hang within the next couple of weeks. I still need to get that SS pad aligned right so I can get my ZZZs on that good diagonal. ...........TWS
    If you have not already done so, make sure you have strengthened your side elastics. I have gotten to where I the first thing I attach is the elastic thru the left( head end) side pad loop and out thru the UC and to the stakes, well tightened. Sometimes I even loop the cord a second time back thru the UC and out to the stake. Then I attach the head suspension line, the right/foot side pad loop, and the bottom pad suspension line. All of this because, for some reason, that pad wants to pull back to the right side, when I want the head end mostly on the left side for the diagonal. But with a few tricks like the above, mine will stay correctly positioned.
    Bill

  10. #10
    Senior Member FreeTheWeasel's Avatar
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    Congratulations BillyBob,

    I envy your ability to make the supershelter work for you. I envision some more backyard testing in my future as well. Temperatures are finally dropping here.

    FreeTheWeasel

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