Minicel + Down Bag = Win?

[thegreatjesse]

After searching for days for a suitable replacement for my blue CCF pad and weighing the pros and cons of buying an underquilt, I've opted for a 3/8 in. minicel pad from FoamFactoryInc. I will probably end up buying an UQ at some point, but I'd like to wait and see how the cheaper solution works. My question is, with my Marmot 30Deg. Medicine Bow down bag and this pad, how low can I go? Has anyone done something similar, maybe in a HH ULBPA? I have read a good bit on here about people using an undercover and putting the pad in the undercover, but this will be directly beneath my bag in the hammock. I'm a relatively warm sleeper, I think, and have been comfortable enough in low 40s with my CCF pad, but I'm still apprehensive.

[Kukri]

If you're still planning to get an uq at some point, why throw money away to get another foam pad? Uq are warmer, pack smaller, and are wayyyy more comfortable; that's why so many of us here use them.

[oldgringo]

Youngblood did a great article on foam pads, but I can't seem to put my hands on it...anybody got a link?

[wisenber]

After searching for days for a suitable replacement for my blue CCF pad and weighing the pros and cons of buying an underquilt, I've opted for a 3/8 in. minicel pad from FoamFactoryInc. I will probably end up buying an UQ at some point, but I'd like to wait and see how the cheaper solution works. My question is, with my Marmot 30Deg. Medicine Bow down bag and this pad, how low can I go? Has anyone done something similar, maybe in a HH ULBPA? I have read a good bit on here about people using an undercover and putting the pad in the undercover, but this will be directly beneath my bag in the hammock. I'm a relatively warm sleeper, I think, and have been comfortable enough in low 40s with my CCF pad, but I'm still apprehensive.

1/4" of Evazote has an R value of 1. That is supposed to be good down to about 57°. If the 3/8 had an R value of 2, it would insulate down to about 45° alone. Since 3/8 is 1.5 times 1/4, I would guess that the R would be closer to 1.5 than 2 though making your insulation with pad alone closer to 50°. The compressed bottom of the sleeping bag might offer an added 5-10 degrees beyond that. YMMV

[wisenber]

If you're still planning to get an uq at some point, why throw money away to get another foam pad? Uq are warmer, pack smaller, and are wayyyy more comfortable; that's why so many of us here use them.

It won't exactly be wasted. I use both. A pad is good in super wet conditions and can be combined with an UQ to provide greater insulation than either alone.

[BillyBob58]

It won't exactly be wasted. I use both. A pad is good in super wet conditions and can be combined with an UQ to provide greater insulation than either alone.

Plus, many often have a pad with them anyway, for pack "frames", as a sit pad and/or for emergency "go to ground or unexpected cold" back up. Will you?

You can probably go as cold as you will ever need to go, and and warm as any UQ by itself, with a pad. It is just a matter of how thick, and if you can tolerate a pad in a hammock. Which many folks can not.

I still think the single warmest winter night I ever had in a hammock was an ~18-20*F night on 2 pads. Speer hammock, one full length TR Ridgerest and one torso length TR Ultra lite inflatable, stacked in a Speer SPE. I'm not sure if it was as comfy as my hammock without a pad, probably not. But, it was still a lot more comfy than those same pads on rocky ground. And after a while I was so obviously warm on my back that it gave me the confidence to come out of my sleeping bag and use it as a quilt for the 1st time, and still stay warm. I have the feeling that combo would have been warm enough at significantly colder temps.

[thegreatjesse]

Thanks for the info, especially wisenber! I would have assumed it would get me down to about 50, but I'll probably end up pushing it into the 40s. I'm wary of buying a UQ because I'd really like to try my hand at making one, but it will have to wait until I'm done with college. I simply do not have the time, right now. I know underquilts are much more convenient than a pad, but I have only had a few nights where my pad actually gave me problems, probably because I'm a skinny dude and I don't move around much when I'm sleeping. My pad now is about 2/3 length, and fits nicely on a diagonal in the HHBPZip. I'll probably cut the minicell down to about that length, and possibly taper it from the shoulders down, depending on weight and width.

[oldgringo]

Here's the article on foam:

http://web.archive.org/web/200802211...leFoamPads.htm

[thegreatjesse]

Wow, now that is a wealth of information. Assuming that I am comfortable at around 60Deg without a pad, which I am, I will posit that the pad that I just bought will suffice to the 40Deg mark. With some room for error, I'll suppose that the pad should take me to 45 comfortably, maybe a bit higher. I doubt that I would use the pad alone at any temperature lower than 45 anyway. Thank you, oldgringo!

[wisenber]

Wow, now that is a wealth of information. Assuming that I am comfortable at around 60Deg without a pad, which I am, I will posit that the pad that I just bought will suffice to the 40Deg mark. With some room for error, I'll suppose that the pad should take me to 45 comfortably, maybe a bit higher. I doubt that I would use the pad alone at any temperature lower than 45 anyway. Thank you, oldgringo!

Well here's a trick I use. I have a 40X60X1/4 evazote pad. When it's warmer, I open it up all the way and put it between my double layers.. When the temps drop, I fold in half to make a 30X40X1/2 pad then just throw some stuff sacks under my feet. It is a quite versatile system for temps into the mid 40's.
Again, you can combine that with a fractional 3 season UQ and get down into the 20's quite nicely. When used that way, it is also a vapor barrier to keep perspiration and respiration from getting the down wet.