UQ supplement?

[BillyBob58]

A space blanket would work just fine, as well as a CCF pad, either full or partial langth, depending on where the cold is getting you.

Would it work better directly under me or between the hammock and quilt? Do you think insultex would work also?

Space blanket between hammock and quilt, CCF pad inside the hammock, preferably in an SPE ( if you have not already bought one you'll have to make one) or between the layers of a double layer hammock. I think that Speer/Younblood SPE was greratly under rated. For just 4 oz you really can make a pad usable even in a single layer hammock, and you can stack pads enough for deep winter use.

But without either SPE or dbl layer, if you can stay on the pad you should be as warm as needed.

The IX that has been mentioned should be a big help. If they are still available, even a single layer UQ ( at ~ 4 oz) should help. I did 2 different unscientific freezer tests of IX. For some reason, I didn't get much improvement when I used 2 layers, maybe I was scre*ing up the test some how? But on 2 dif tries, after 1 or 2 hours in the freezer( can't remember the exact time, it was just enough to form a little ice in the water bottle) there was 16*F temp dif between the water bottle "A" and water bottle "B" which was loosely covered with one layer of IX. I think that is a good bit of help from what would be ~ 4 oz full length UQ including suspension.

scLittlefield, interesting that you feel the IX works much better outside the UQ. Kind of goes along with a debate in another thread on the SS about whether the SB should be used on top of the HH ocf pad or under it. Have you noticed any condensation? I find the IX to be somewhat windproof. That would, among other reasons, account for it working better on the outside, assuming no condensation and if you could hang it loosely enough so as not to compress loft.

I hung one under my SS pad yesterday---- WhooBuddy that felt warm!

[sclittlefield]

scLittlefield, interesting that you feel the IX works much better outside the UQ. Kind of goes along with a debate in another thread on the SS about whether the SB should be used on top of the HH ocf pad or under it. Have you noticed any condensation? I find the IX to be somewhat windproof. That would, among other reasons, account for it working better on the outside, assuming no condensation and if you could hang it loosely enough so as not to compress loft.

I haven't had problems with condensation - I'm a cold sleeper, and this setup kept me at just the right temp where I was toasty warm, but not so much that I sweat a lot. There was some frost where I was breathing when I woke up (it was that cold).

Losse insulation (or open cell) like climashield and down are more susceptible to losing heat from high air circulation (wind) than closed cell insulations like IX and CCF. That's not saying they don't do a great job - they do! But working in conjunction with each other, in my experience, is where both styles really shine. The IX blocks wind and so dramatically reduces heat loss from the loftier (and in my opinion, nicer) open cell insulation that the heat gain is incredibly significant.

It's the loft of the climashield that allows the IX to do it's job best - IX does not work well compressed - it needs to be loose. The climashield fills all the voids so you're not dealing with shifting air pockets of loose IX (if used alone).

Singularly, they're great. Together, they shine.

[Darby]

I haven't had problems with condensation - I'm a cold sleeper, and this setup kept me at just the right temp where I was toasty warm, but not so much that I sweat a lot. There was some frost where I was breathing when I woke up (it was that cold).

Losse insulation (or open cell) like climashield and down are more susceptible to losing heat from high air circulation (wind) than closed cell insulations like IX and CCF. That's not saying they don't do a great job - they do! But working in conjunction with each other, in my experience, is where both styles really shine. The IX blocks wind and so dramatically reduces heat loss from the loftier (and in my opinion, nicer) open cell insulation that the heat gain is incredibly significant.

It's the loft of the climashield that allows the IX to do it's job best - IX does not work well compressed - it needs to be loose. The climashield fills all the voids so you're not dealing with shifting air pockets of loose IX (if used alone).

Singularly, they're great. Together, they shine.

sclittlefield,

You have just confirmed my suspicions. Since taking on MacEntyers IX products, we have been swamped with questions about temp ratings. So I decided to test for myself at MAHHA. I used a Shamu which is a full length double layer IX under quilt with an outer shell of 1.1 ripstop. I stayed warm down to the mid 40's but I'm not sure it would have carried me much further. To be fair, I never lowered my tarp from the awning mode. We do have single layer inserts to boost the rating but my mind was wandering down a different road. I thought about the effect of combining IX and Climashield. I figured the loft of the Climashield and the wind blocking properties of the IX would be a good combination. You just made me yell out "I knew it". So it's off to the drawing board for me. Oh, by the way, we do carry IX by the yard.

[JDShearer]

I was also wondering what kind of temperature boost the IX would give climashield. This might actually convince me to spring for some of both.

[BillyBob58]

I have been briefly experimenting with adding a layer of IX to one or more layers of CS which I add and subtract from my WB CS " Yeti". That will be inside the nylon shell, though I have thought about wrapping it around the shell. I just suspect this has great potential.

[hangnout]

I was also wondering what kind of temperature boost the IX would give climashield. This might actually convince me to spring for some of both.

I have a UQ with the IX and climashield. The IX should be on the outside layer (not against hammock) The seal to the hammock is critical to get the temp boost.

[oldgringo]

Scott, could you share some details on your overcover, please?

[pgibson]

My testing showed about a 5-10 degree temp boost with a layer of IX outside the climashield, but a 25-40% reduction in compressibility of the quilts. That is a big change on a climasheild quilt, more than I liked. A Lost River 1S without IX can pack to about the size of a 1 litter nalgeen, with it you are looking at closer to a soccer ball or there about. A full lenght quilt was worse as it restricts the small pockets that would normally squish flat but are being stiffened with the IX in place.

[MAD777]

Having recently aquired a small piece of IX to play with, I've been reading some "technical" articles about it's insulating properties. There seems to be a consensus that IX needs an air gap between itself and what it is trying to insulate. Otherwise, the IX is nearly useless. For reasons beyond my complete understanding, IX reflects infrared losses but, that will not work unless there is a gap, void of anything including insulation, next to it.

Accepting the above statement, it makes sense that MacIntre is sewing "tubes" between layers of IX to create & maintain that air gap. Also, in the freezer test described earlier in this thread, it was stated that the IX was covered "loosely" around the water bottle: It would be interesting to test two water bottles, one wrapped tightly & the other covered loosely.

To me, the challenge in the field with IX below the UQ is to seal the perimeter while allowing a gap between it & the UQ throughout the rest of the UQ. The perimeter seal would stop convection losses & the gap would allow the IX to stop infrared losses.

BTW, if any condensation does form inside this system, that gap could serve the purpose of keeping the condensed water away from the UQ.

[MacEntyre]

...will not work unless there is a gap...

It need not be much of a gap. Simply relieving the tension of contact is sufficient.

To me, the challenge in the field with IX below the UQ is to seal the perimeter while allowing a gap between it & the UQ throughout the rest of the UQ.

That is it!

...if any condensation does form inside this system, that gap could serve the purpose of keeping the condensed water away from the UQ.

However, condensation likely will cause a cold spot. It is best to avoid it by making sure you do not overheat.

I don't think anyone has tested wet IX in the field, to see if it will still insulate your hammock. A little water probably won't do much. I anticipate that it will do fine if it is an exterior layer, outside another UQ... but I don't think it will do well by itself, once thoroughly wetted. Fortunately, it absorbs no water, and is easy to dry.