Hammock VS Backpack Tarps

[mugs]

So I have made some observations that have again sparked a question or two. After looking through a lot of "hammock tarp" sites and also after receiving my McCat standard (very cool tarp) I have noticed a few things on hammocking vs BP (back packing) tarps.

First hammock traps tend to be (to me) way over engineered, and therefore heavier. Is this for structural strength or just an easier/less expensive (on man hours) to make a tarp. What I mean is this. The hammock tarps I have looked at have grossgrain around the edges, heavy webbing and buckles for guy outs, and heavier webbing for corner re-enforcement.

The back packing tarps I own have non of these features and have held up just fine in many adverse weather situations....so why the over kill and extra weight. I own everything from syl, cuben, and spinn, and everything in between. My favorite being cuben.

So why can't those that make "our" tarps just do a simple fold over or flat felled seem for the edges, and use the same material as the tarp in the areas needed for re-enforcement and simple light weight gross grain loops (no buckles) for the tie out points. Seems to me this would reduce material cost and most importantly weight.

I know there are the exceptions out there such as those making cuben tarps or some spinn tarps without said items, but for the mainstream of things or most tarps I have looked up and or observed in pictures I have noticed the way overly engineered and built tarps.

Just curious as to why. Is it a "standard" of that's the way its done, or do you genuinely need more structural stuff added because its blowing away in the trees instead of being on the ground? ...Seems like it would be about the same to me. Especially if guyed out properly.

[MAD777]

Good question, Mugs! I think that it might be that a backpacker, sleeping on the ground under a tarp, is a very weight conscious person, i.e. gram weenie. No disrespect in that. I admire and try to learn from folks like that and practice that philosophy to a degree, myself.

However, when it came to the point where I just couldn't stand to sleep on the ground anymore (old bones), I didn't mind adding the weight of the hammock. I gained a lot more than I lost.

But, I feel that among hammockers, there is a broad spectrum of weight consciousness. Some don't even hike, they canoe camp or they only car camp, and that's great for them. Personally, it's all about the hiking for me, so I have to watch my weight.

I just think that there is a wider cross section of people who sleep in a hammock than those that sleep on the ground, sans tent.

Personally, I would love to see lighter tarps for hammocks and even light materials available for DIY. I won't get into it here but I've been frustrated by the lack of availability of Spinnaker EXP. I finally just threw up my hands and ordered some silnylon so I could make a small, lightweight tarp. I'm not quite ready yet to deal with cuben and none of the usual suspects making tarps are making cuben ones as small as I wanted.

[lori]

There's no difference. I use my MacCat either way.

You do not need to use an "overengineered" tarp for any purpose. Plenty of hammock users use Kelty Noah, blue poly/grommeted to heck, or heavy-as-lead PU coated whatever-was-cheapest, don't-know-what-it's-made-of-but-it-works.... You use whatever fits your personal criteria - it's all about personal preferences, like so many other things.

The only specific functional difference between a ground tarp and a hammock tarp - if the tarp that's adequate for you on the ground is too small to cover the hammock you have, you get wet. The larger "hammock" tarp is under no such constraints. A MacCat Deluxe is a palace for two on the ground if you set it up A frame between a couple trees.

[Rat]

Not "all" hammocking tarps are this way. Neither my Speer nor my JRB is this way; both are big and very well put together though. It comes down to a different philosophy by the tarp builder and, ultimately, the end user. Some people feel the edge binding gives the tarp a more taught pitch due to the added structure of the binding, some people don't; and the reasons to have it on or off are many.

The best part about it is that we can find a tarp maker who builds one we like, or ask one of them to build a custom one however we want.

I know there are the exceptions out there such as those making cuben tarps or some spinn tarps without said items, but for the mainstream of things or most tarps I have looked up and or observed in pictures I have noticed the way overly engineered and built tarps.

Spinn and Cuben are not mainstream yet, as much as the gram counters want it to be. Mainstream is what is marketable and sellable, you are talking about a niche market within a niche market; ultralight tarps for hammock use! As far as being overengineered, yes, but have you seen some of the methmagicians we have on here? Overbuilt? Not if my life is depending on it; of course I don't have a problem carrying an 18 ounce tarp over a 14 ounce tarp if it means it will hold up better in a worse case scenario. That's just from my point of view tho...

Anyway, cuben and spinn are not mainstreaem for ground dwellers yet either; there are still probably way more nylon tarps being built then both of these combined.

[Doctari]

Also, speaking from MY experience, some of us use our tarps year round, nearly every day (I do) yet can only afford ONE tarp. That is: one very good tarp. So, yes, my tarp is "way over engineered" it is also HUGE! But then I use it on winter camping trips. do I pay a weight pentalty? Yes I do, my tarp is 31 OZ. But to me, it is a trade off: my tarp will withstand Thunderstorms with 50MPH+ winds AND keep me dry (Yes, I have been in them), close up to provide added protection from the above T-Storms &/or seriously cold weather, allows me to stand & stretch if I need to, & if I want to, I can cook under my tarp without being very close to the tarp or hammock.

Do I want an UL tarp? Yes I do!! But I feel that even if I could afford one, my "Heavy" tarp would still be my go to tarp. Even if I ever should go back to ground. With the UL tarp in "reserve" for fair weather / summer trips.

Possibly*, for summer use or if I was a weekender, or only did 1 -2 short trips a year, the UL option would be very apealing. Or if I was less parinoid about being cold & wet (2 severe cases of Hypothermia made me,,, edgy).

I have seen hangers with minimal tarps as Mugs described, & they work well, very well in fact. The above is MY reason for an over engineered tarp.

BTW: that was a good question! Thanks!


*Again: if I could afford another Light weight quality tarp.

[TinaLouise]

I use different tarps depending on what kind of trip I'm heading out on. I've got two huge tarps that I've made and both of them are simple flat seams on the ridgeline and edges. Well, the ridgeline is folded twice and sewn twice and sealed. I made loops out of the same nylon and sewed them where I needed to have guylines using extra nylon to reinforce those spots. I've had one pull out during a paticularly awful storm. Other than that one time, I've not had any other problems with these two tarps. I made them without any buckles or grossgrain around the edges and they've worked just fine for me. My husband is now using one of them with his new BB. From the pictures I've seen of other's tarps, mine without the grossgrain doesn't look as pretty but that's ok with me.

TinaLouise

[mugs]

Anyway, cuben and spinn are not mainstreaem for ground dwellers yet either; there are still probably way more nylon tarps being built then both of these combined.

Maybe I did not write my statement clear enough...I was not refuring to spinn and cuben as mainstream. I was referring to syl and the "over engineering" of the mainstream tarps out there. I guess because I live in the UL/SUL world things seem different to me (so cuben and spin are normal), especially now that I have come off the ground.

[Redwood Guy]

Anyway, cuben ... are not mainstreaem for ground dwellers yet either; there are still probably way more nylon tarps being built then both of these combined.

Sure but lets be realistic, neither are hammocks by your scale put forth.

There are what, one, two, "mainstream" companies pushing "not your backyard kinda of hammock" out to backpackers.

I am not talking about cottage companies, because neither are you.

Companies such as Hyperlight Mountain Gear who are pushing out ultra high end Cuben fiber tarp/stents are no different *at all* than companies such as Warbonnet Outdoors pushing out ultra high end hammocks -- neither are "mainstream" by most definitions of the backpacking/camping industry. They are not MSR, they are not Eureka, they are not what you walk into REI and buy. Yet, they have a viable place and are being purchased by the hundreds and thousands as this awesome thing called "getting outdoors" continues to grow - once again - in the lives of people.


Clearly there is a viable market out there for ground dwellers looking for cuben fiber tents, otherwise companies like HMG and others would not be starting up every quarter, nor remaining open. Threads like this at backpackinglight clearly indicate people are buying.

[Rat]

Sure but lets be realistic, neither are hammocks by your scale put forth.

There are what, one, two, "mainstream" companies pushing "not your backyard kinda of hammock" out to backpackers.

I am not talking about cottage companies, because neither are you.

Companies such as Hyperlight Mountain Gear who are pushing out ultra high end Cuben fiber tarp/stents are no different *at all* than companies such as Warbonnet Outdoors pushing out ultra high end hammocks -- neither are "mainstream" by most definitions of the backpacking/camping industry. They are not MSR, they are not Eureka, they are not what you walk into REI and buy. Yet, they have a viable place and are being purchased by the hundreds and thousands as this awesome thing called "getting outdoors" continues to grow - once again - in the lives of people.


Clearly there is a viable market out there for ground dwellers looking for cuben fiber tents, otherwise companies like HMG and others would not be starting up every quarter, nor remaining open. Threads like this at backpackinglight clearly indicate people are buying.

I agree completely, I was just trying to add some perspective to Mugs observation that all hammock tarps are overbuilt by ultralight ground dwelling standards. My point is that they are overbuilt based on that criteria, but that criteria is far from 'mainstream'. We are talking about a niche market (ultralight hammock tarps) within a niche market (hammock camping). I agree there is plenty of demand for ultralight tarps by 'mainstream' companies, and someday (maybe) this material will be the standard, but it isn't yet.

I understood the question to be, "why are hammock tarps so overbuilt when compared to the mainstream cuben and spinn tarps ground dwellers use?" My answer is that not all of them are overbuilt, and neither cuben or spinn is mainstream yet; which is what your reply bolsters. It is a niche market and the needs of that market are being met.

[Redwood Guy]

I agree completely, I was just trying to add some perspective to Mugs observation that all hammock tarps are overbuilt by ultralight ground dwelling standards. My point is that they are overbuilt based on that criteria, but that criteria is far from 'mainstream'. We are talking about a niche market (ultralight hammock tarps) within a niche market (hammock camping). I agree there is plenty of demand for ultralight tarps by 'mainstream' companies, and someday (maybe) this material will be the standard, but it isn't yet.

I understood the question to be, "why are hammock tarps so overbuilt when compared to the mainstream cuben and spinn tarps ground dwellers use?" My answer is that not all of them are overbuilt, and neither cuben or spinn is mainstream yet; which is what your reply bolsters. It is a niche market and the needs of that market are being met.

Yep, yep. Fully agree.