I'm curious as to what staking method

**steene** · 11-24-2007, 09:17

everyone uses when the ground is frozen. In some areas this probably won't be an issue. But here the soil freezes to several feet down in winter.
Do you have different stakes or techniques for dealing with this or snow?

**headchange4u** · 11-24-2007, 09:26

I always use the Ground Hog style stakes. I have hammered them through some pretty rocky ground. I have never had a problem using them on any kind of surface so far. If you are in really deep snow I would try some snow anchors or the technique I use for sand; take on old blank CD, tie the guy line in the middle of the stake, run the stake through the middle of the disc, and then turn the stake sideways so that the stake won't come back through the hole and bury the disc.

**lyleb** · 11-24-2007, 10:10

headchange4u,

Very interesting. Have you tried this in snow? I would have thought the cd's were way to fragile for this. Don't they get even more brittle when frozen?

Guess I will have to give it a try, certainly light enough.

Thanks for the idea.

**mataharihiker** · 11-24-2007, 11:13

SMC T-Anchors...ridiculously expensive unless you buy them using the 20% off sales that REI offers...they're user friendly...quick to set and easy to remove...

http://www.rei.com/product/701779

The CD idea is a great one...I'd like to see how they hold up when temps drop below 0F...I wouldn't bother using the stake...just tie a line around them using their center hole then bury them.

I've used plastic, grocery bags filled with snow, MSR stakes which froze in the ground...I was not strong enough to remove them but there were friends around who were...

It is a challenge staking down a tent in solidly frozen ground with no snow...

I have the REI snow and sand tent anchors...save your money...they are really small...I found them pretty useless...

http://www.rei.com/product/725165

**lyleb** · 11-24-2007, 11:36

Originally Posted by mataharihiker

The CD idea is a great one...I'd like to see how they hold up when temps drop below 0F...I wouldn't bother using the stake...just tie a line around them using their center hole then bury them.
http://www.rei.com/product/725165

Seems using the stake would keep the cd perpendicular to the pull of the line, also they would distribute the load to a wider area of the cd. May be worth the extra weight/hassle of using them. Would have to be careful when chopping them out of the snow, doubt thay would take any kind of direct blow.

All just theory on my part at this time.

**mataharihiker** · 11-24-2007, 11:44

Originally Posted by lyleb

Seems using the stake would keep the cd perpendicular to the pull of the line, also they would distribute the load to a wider area of the cd. May be worth the extra weight/hassle of using them. Would have to be careful when chopping them out of the snow, doubt thay would take any kind of direct blow.

All just theory on my part at this time.

Ha! I forgot I was posting in the engineering forums...LOL...you're right, of course...a stake might well be worth it...I'll try both later in the season when the temps drop and if we get snow...

**Doctari** · 11-24-2007, 12:41

I have only had to do this once, on one stake (of 4) at the Mt Rogers hang out: I found a big rock from a fire pit, & tied my rope to it. Oddly, after I moved Sat AM, I had to take that rock with me cause my new site also allowed 3 stakes to go in easily, but not the 4th. Oh! So I suppose I have done it twice then

Likely I could have used a large stick / log or something similar. Sat night I also was in a very sheltered location, so minimal wind on my tarp.

In an emergency, you could probably knock your hiking partner upside the head, & use his / her unconcious body to tie off to,

this may cause a bit of a strain in your relationship tho

**mataharihiker** · 11-24-2007, 13:07

I've been in places where rocks and logs I would normally use as weights were frozen in the ground under layers of ice and immobile...combine that with no snow and you have to start getting real inventive...and lucky...

**headchange4u** · 11-24-2007, 14:47

Originally Posted by lyleb

Seems using the stake would keep the cd perpendicular to the pull of the line, also they would distribute the load to a wider area of the cd. May be worth the extra weight/hassle of using them. Would have to be careful when chopping them out of the snow, doubt thay would take any kind of direct blow.

All just theory on my part at this time.

That's exactly right. You can also use a stick or something similar.

Once the CD is buried, the forces on it are not that bad, and is spread over the entire area of the disc pulling against the snow/sand. I've never had one break on me, but then again I have never had to use one in deep snow. I have also head of people using pie tins to get the same a effect and a pie tin is much more likely to deform from the forces applied and they still hold well.

**pure_mahem** · 11-24-2007, 18:08

My experience with stakes and frozen ground is to get a larger hammer. Funny how a little thing like an 8 lb sledge makes light work of driving a stake into frozen ground. I am not saying that the 8 lb sledge isn't a difficult thing to pack in but you have to make sacrifices some times. 8 lb sledge is more handy for car camping JMO!