Nested tarp experiment

**WalksIn2Trees** · 12-01-2016, 23:24

Since folks are starting to ask questions about warmth contributions of tarps and other non insulators:

After a question someone asked in the spring or early summer, I got a second tarp, so I figured, why not? So, I'm currently experimenting with nesting two tarps together. So far, no, not much difference between temperature compared to just using one, but so far there IS a difference in condensation, though keep in mind, it's still early in the season for me, and The setup hasn't seen any weather extremes yet. I will be doing a more extensive follow up in the spring, for those that are curious

The setup: a Bullfrog nested inside a 13 ft OldManWinter. A pole mod between the two, ratchet strap for the top ridgeline (OMW). Amsteel for the inner ridgeline (BF)
Notes:
OMW has Velcro doors.
BF does not.
Setup height is based on the BF sides coming close to the ground, pole mod is using the loops on the BF.
OMW height is based on interaction with the pole mod.
Poles are trecking poles
Horizontally, both tarps (and hammock) are hung off-center, biased towards one tree of the hang, and the BF is also hung biased mostly towards that same end of the OMW to give me a vestibule of sorts at the entrance, on the side away from the tree.
Both tarps are the same width so the edges of the OMW end up several feet above the ground.
By design there is a gap between the two tarps. Originally my idea was to have a two inch gap, but the pole mod ruined that.

My goal is to see what happens with it closed down... How it functions compared to warmth, wind, snow, and condensation.

Obviously I have some educated expectations of what to expect with all of these factors, but there's a difference between theory and practice, and sometimes surprises happen.

What do YOU predict?

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**GadgetUK437** · 12-02-2016, 01:22

Seems to work for tents.

--
Gadget

**W8lkinUSA** · 12-02-2016, 16:42

Originally Posted by WalksIn2Trees

Since folks are starting to ask questions about warmth contributions of tarps and other non insulators:

After a question someone asked in the spring or early summer, I got a second tarp, so I figured, why not? So, I'm currently experimenting with nesting two tarps together. So far, no, not much difference between temperature compared to just using one, but so far there IS a difference in condensation, though keep in mind, it's still early in the season for me, and The setup hasn't seen any weather extremes yet. I will be doing a more extensive follow up in the spring, for those that are curious.

Awesome!! Thanks for taking lead in this experiment. I had just theorized the effects of condensation using this setup a couple of weeks ago; glad to hear it worked. Sounds like a Warbonnet Edge within a SuperFly is just the ticket.

If car camping, do you think a throw blanket might provide insulation benefits between the tarps?

**WalksIn2Trees** · 12-02-2016, 23:26

Originally Posted by W8lkinUSA

Awesome!! Thanks for taking lead in this experiment. I had just theorized the effects of condensation using this setup a couple of weeks ago; glad to hear it worked. Sounds like a Warbonnet Edge within a SuperFly is just the ticket.

If car camping, do you think a throw blanket might provide insulation benefits between the tarps?

Depends. I'd think it should have some effect. But consider that if you don't insulate the ends too, what you're making is a tunnel.

I don't quite feel like I have a full grasp on the functioning of it yet... So I don't think anyone ekse should assume that I do either, though I thank you for your faith in me.

It's one thing to say this seems like it's working, and another thing to know WHY it's working.

My test will continue as is because if I change the parameters too soon then I could miss an important insight.

You're welcome to give it a try though

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**W8lkinUSA** · 12-03-2016, 18:29

I really wish I could..

Only own one tarp, ATM..
Funds are tight..
The nearest National Park is 3+ hours away..

**SnrMoment** · 12-03-2016, 19:48

If you don't want to buy another tarp, a 2 part fleece cover will give you an appreciable more amount of warmth. It gets a little ice fuzz inside when temps are around 0* and lower. It slides along the ridgeline with most of the length at the foot side. Top is a smaller panel and can be overlapped by the long side.

**WalksIn2Trees** · 12-03-2016, 21:34

Originally Posted by W8lkinUSA

I really wish I could..

Only own one tarp, ATM..
Funds are tight..
The nearest National Park is 3+ hours away..

I know how that is: my job is in it's slow time right now with the holidays approaching, and it won't pick back up until January... plenty of seasonal retail work around right now though.

really it's not too much different of a concept than using a Sock... like he said you might end up with a stiff frosty section of your covering around your head. and for that use you can check the bargain bins

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**W8lkinUSA** · 12-03-2016, 22:39

Originally Posted by SnrMoment

If you don't want to buy another tarp, a 2 part fleece cover will give you an appreciable more amount of warmth. It gets a little ice fuzz inside when temps are around 0* and lower. It slides along the ridgeline with most of the length at the foot side. Top is a smaller panel and can be overlapped by the long side.

What a great idea.

I've already scheduled a car camping trip to a state park next month, so I'll bring some crappy blankets to cover my Ridgerunner's bugnet until I can amass lightweight trail gear. Definitely sounds better than being weighed down by 3+ blankets.

I suppose I can leave an opening above my head to reduce condensation. Historical weather data show average lows of ~39°F so I hope to be frost-free. Added wind protection sounds great too!

**WalksIn2Trees** · 12-11-2016, 11:49

Just some photos of my setup. Note that this is taken at 11am temp is now 29°F, overnight low was 16°F. When I woke up, the outside was covered in a light layer of snow.

The entire inside of the outer layer matched the condensation crystals that are now only on the shaded side of it.

The inner layer had no crystals on its outside surface, but did have some on its inside surface, mostly along the ridgeline, and mostly over my head, probably from my breath. However, it was a very acceptable amount as compared to the outer layer. As you can see, the inner layer is not closed off from the outer layer, so I doubt there's much functional difference between a tarp used this way and a fabric draped over the ridgeline.

I'm going to see if I can find (or make) a system that lets me record data from multiple temperature sensors on my tablet. Then I can put one each outside, between the tarp's, inside, in the bottom of my UQ, and next to me in my TQ.

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