amount of weight saved w/ Amsteel

**warbonnetguy** · 12-10-2010, 19:33

7/64 amsteel is plenty strong (even if knots are used)

a single strand of amsteel and a knot will be lighter than whoopies, (you use half as much line this way, so the line portion would be half as heavy) straps would be the same of course.

tying amsteel directly to your straps is workable, but will wear through the strap eventually. for this setup use a slipped double sheetbend, lighter users may get away with a slipped single sheetbend.

if you get tree straps with hardware in the end (like a small welded d ring) that will add about 1/2 oz total to your straps, but you don't have to worry about the line wearing through the strap over time. if tying to a ring, use a slipped buntline hitch.

a clove hitch may work, but you'll want to make it slipped as it will tighten down and be very difficult to untie otherwise. slipped sheetbend is very similar to a slipped clove, and more useful imo.

you could also get away with something like dynaglide whoopies that may be even lighter than this (not sure), but that's some thin cord to hang from, and it only comes in dayglow colors (not saying it ain't strong enough, but check it often for signs of abrasion)

if you want to make straps with a metal ring i could send you a pair of welded triangle ring (8g each), or just sell you some straps that are already made this way.

i wouldn't worry about whoopies wearing out in the field, and if they did you'd have plenty of line there to revert to line/knots.

**unicycleman** · 12-11-2010, 08:14

Originally Posted by unicycleman

y 7/32 amsteel is rated to 1600 lbs.

sorry but i meant 7/64

**team FTB** · 12-11-2010, 09:22

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

7/64 amsteel is plenty strong (even if knots are used)

a single strand of amsteel and a knot will be lighter than whoopies, (you use half as much line this way, so the line portion would be half as heavy) straps would be the same of course.

tying amsteel directly to your straps is workable, but will wear through the strap eventually. for this setup use a slipped double sheetbend, lighter users may get away with a slipped single sheetbend.

if you get tree straps with hardware in the end (like a small welded d ring) that will add about 1/2 oz total to your straps, but you don't have to worry about the line wearing through the strap over time. if tying to a ring, use a slipped buntline hitch.

a clove hitch may work, but you'll want to make it slipped as it will tighten down and be very difficult to untie otherwise. slipped sheetbend is very similar to a slipped clove, and more useful imo.

you could also get away with something like dynaglide whoopies that may be even lighter than this (not sure), but that's some thin cord to hang from, and it only comes in dayglow colors (not saying it ain't strong enough, but check it often for signs of abrasion)

if you want to make straps with a metal ring i could send you a pair of welded triangle ring (8g each), or just sell you some straps that are already made this way.

i wouldn't worry about whoopies wearing out in the field, and if they did you'd have plenty of line there to revert to line/knots.

Thank you kindly for the informative post

. Its very much appreciated.

I'm looking for my next hammock suspension (and hammock in another thread) and your information on setups and upgrading the knots used is appreciated. As you stated, a single length of Amsteel and a knot is half the weight of the Whoopie's which is why i'm looking at it. I'm even thinking of using Amsteel as tree huggers (with sticks to protect the bark) w/a metal ring or ultra liteweight carabiner in the end.

If anybody see's any issues with this thoughtrain please feel free to educate my newbie brain.

Warbonnetguy - From your perspective why is it that Hammock companies have not got in their product line "ultralite" complete set-ups (hammock w/bug-net, suspension, and tarp) weighing well under 2 pounds. I thought it would be a dream come true with backpackers. HH is the only one I've found with the HH Ultralight. Is it a product that has limited sales potential or is it just too fragile of a product to sell from a manufacturers perspective?

Thanks again everyone for your guidance.

Edit: whoops just seen your Traveler w/ available bugnet. Time for more research.

**cfisch9** · 12-11-2010, 14:46

Just to add something else, if you are looking at using a thin line, and not making whoopies (they really work well and are very durable, I have used mine quite a bit with no problems and I am 300 pounds, using 7/64 amsteel) then I would definitely suggest watching Grizz's youtube video series: "A Brief Primer on Hammock Suspensions." His videos explain a number of different ways you can rig up a hammock without using knots or splices. You can find those videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfessorHammock#p/u

**team FTB** · 12-12-2010, 04:27

Originally Posted by bcaron

Timely question as I just changed the suspension on my HH Expedition last night.

The stock HH line alone, per side weighs 62 grams. The completed whoopie sling, 13' of Amsteel, weighs 17 grams. Just a straight line, even less. But why tie knots when you don't have to?

So, for the gram counters out there, that's a savings of 90 grams total for the hammock with full slings.

The biggest benefit to me is that the amsteel basically disappears in the bag. The stock line is very bulky and brittle in comparison. Don't let anyone tell you the conversion is difficult....it's a breeze. Make your own slings, it's fun and easy to do.

Thanks heaps bcaron, exactly what I was looking for with the specs. As you noted aside from the weight the packing dimensions with the Amsteel is negligable, a great benefit in my eyes.

**Redoleary** · 12-12-2010, 07:42

Why not use a UCR? Weigh less than a whoopie and still no knots.

**Tendertoe** · 12-12-2010, 10:09

If you are concerned with bulk, Dynaglide is the best option, followed by Amsteel.

As far as weight is concerned, your weight savings on a full whoopie vs. single line of Amsteel will be nearly negligible. The weight savings for Amsteel vs. Dynaglide will also be negligible imho.

Check the attachment for a concise description of weights all in ounces that I came up with for a dayhike hammock setup, or continue reading for a wordy description.

Amsteel Whoopie -
Considering the weight per foot of Amsteel is only 0.0001875 oz (0.00531553559 grams), the weight of one of my 25 foot 2 inch whoopies is 0.002359375 oz (0.0668871561 grams) times 2 (one for each side) = 0.00471875 oz (0.133774312 grams) for a full 7/64 Amsteel whoopie setup.

Dynaglide Whoopie -
Dynaglide weight per foot is 0.0000625 oz (0.0017718452 grams), the weight of one of my 25 foot 2 inch whoopies is 0.000787 oz (0.0223110747 grams) times 2 (one for each side) = 0.001574 oz (0.0446221494 grams) for a full Dynaglide whoopie setup.

Amsteel single line -
Amsteel single line suspension (considering you would want some adjustability) = roughly 8 feet of Amsteel per side which would allow you to hang between trees 24 feet apart = 0.003 oz (0.0850485694 grams) for a full single line Amsteel setup.

Long story short -

Meaning the difference in weight for Amsteel whoopies vs. Dynaglide whoopies = 0.00314475 oz (0.0891521628 grams)

And, the difference in weight for Amsteel single line suspension vs. Amsteel full whoopie suspension = 0.00171875 oz (0.0487257429 grams).

You are saving about 5/100 of a gram going with a single line of Amsteel setup vs. a full Amsteel whoopie setup (granted, you will be saving some bulk, but not enough to really matter considering how simple whoopies make your setup imho).

If you are worried about durability, as previously mentioned, you still have 25 feet of Amsteel even if one fails that you could tie in knots if it fails. You could always carry a single extra whoopie if you are truly nervous of failure for 7/100 of a gram.

**warbonnetguy** · 12-12-2010, 12:36

Originally Posted by team FTB

Thank you kindly for the informative post

. Its very much appreciated.

HH is the only one I've found with the HH Ultralight. Is it a product that has limited sales potential or is it just too fragile of a product to sell from a manufacturers perspective?
.

the hh ultralite backpacker weighs 1 LBS 15oz but this is a 70d hammock, so i don't think that's what you mean, the explorer ultralight is even heavier.

their lightest hammock is the hyperlight at 1 LBS 10oz, but you have to be careful, if you read the fine print you will see that they provide complimentary tree straps, but since they are complimentary, they are not counted in the listed weight.

the equivalent blackbird (single1.1BB) with line/strap suspension and asym diamond tarp weighs 1 LBS 11.5oz, but keep in mind that's "with" the tree straps. compare apples to apples and remove the straps from the weight and you have 1 LBS 8.25oz, so by the numbers that warbonnet setup would be lighter than anything avail from HH.

you mentioned the traveler, from my calcs. single 1.1 traveler plus travel net plus asym diamond tarp is the exact same weight (1 LBS 11.5oz)

**warbonnetguy** · 12-12-2010, 12:44

Originally Posted by Tendertoe

If you are concerned with bulk, Dynaglide is the best option, followed by Amsteel.

As far as weight is concerned.....

just weighed both. amsteel 7/64 weighs about 1.6 g/ft, and dynaglide is about 0.75g/ft, so it's almost exactly half as much, this means the dynaglide whoopie would weigh about the same as a single length of the 7/64.

**Tendertoe** · 12-12-2010, 20:47

This real world measurement would have seriously affected my choice for suspension (I was working with numbers which is not my strong suite). Maybe I missed a decimal in the conversions.

Looks like an excuse to shoot through an order for Dynaglide

.