View Poll Results: Have You Used a Vapor Barrier Layer (VBL)?

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  • Yes, although my clothes/insulation got really wet!

    24 5.13%
  • Yes, I think they work great.

    95 20.30%
  • No, I am skeptical that VBL's work at all.

    35 7.48%
  • No, I've never really looked into VBL's.

    314 67.09%
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  1. #91
    New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejoha View Post
    This past weekend I was backpacking the San Francisco Peaks in northern Arizona. We set up our hammocks on the steepest incline I've ever hung on, not far from the trail, at 11,300 ft. It wasn't suppose to get very cold, maybe in the low 40s.

    However, that night my body was pretty beat up with the days mileage and altitude and I was close to shivering in my 40°F-rated down top quilt. I was wearing every bit of clothing I had.

    There was no chance of rain that night so I took my rain tarp (a GoLite Poncho Tarp) and wrapped it around my legs and lower torso before going to bed.

    While not the ideal temperature conditions, the effect was immediate and welcome. I slept in this makeshift VBL all night and slept warm and comfortable. Since the VBL wasn't completely sealed, I had some moderate ventilation, but this "burrito" style really helped my body regulate its temperature until my metabolism kicked in.

    In the morning, I pulled off my top quilt and my legs were still warm and cozy inside my tarp wrap. Pulling the tarp away, my legs immediately felt cool. It was amazing.

    Typically, VBLs are recommended only in very cold and dry conditions. I wanted to share this experience because it gave me a sort of "last resort" method for staying warm in unusual circumstances.

    While I was wrapped up enough to stay warm, there were enough "leaks" for venting that I didn't have any condensation issues. It was also very windy all night, which likely helped pull away a lot of moisture.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #92
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Good bump! Great old thread I somehow missed. I only use a VB on my feet. The Rab VB Socks I have are well worth the $40. Turkey roasting bags, bread, produce, newspaper bags don't cut it for me. A tear and you're done. But even if you are OK with their durability, the fit is all wrong. Having something in the actual shape of a sock is key for comfort, slipping down, etc.

    I don't do it for warmth while wearing, not at all. I'll wear them even in warmer 25° because that's when I sweat a lot more in winter boots. So keeping that sweat out is so important since the low will likely be around 10° or lower...a BAD time to have even slightly damp boot insulation. Even worse, when it freezes overnight, you may never get them warmed up.

  3. #93
    Member
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    Jun 2016
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    Portland, oregon
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    I use a silnylon sock that wraps my hammock top to bottom with a foot and head vent with an overhang on each edge, if I'm getting to much moisture build up I just open up my vents a bit. When the vents are opened fully there's no moisture build up and at 18F I had an average inside hammock temperature of 52F with no wind chill. My underquilt also has two layers of insultex on the bottom side in addition to apex that completely blocks any wind that might rob my bottom insulation of heat.

  4. #94
    Senior Member P-Dub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Ann Arbor MI
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    Here's the correct link for Skurka's article listed in the OP
    http://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-b...y-application/

  5. #95
    Senior Member Rouskof's Avatar
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    Jul 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejoha View Post
    This past weekend I was backpacking the San Francisco Peaks in northern Arizona. We set up our hammocks on the steepest incline I've ever hung on, not far from the trail, at 11,300 ft. It wasn't suppose to get very cold, maybe in the low 40s.

    However, that night my body was pretty beat up with the days mileage and altitude and I was close to shivering in my 40°F-rated down top quilt. I was wearing every bit of clothing I had.

    There was no chance of rain that night so I took my rain tarp (a GoLite Poncho Tarp) and wrapped it around my legs and lower torso before going to bed.

    While not the ideal temperature conditions, the effect was immediate and welcome. I slept in this makeshift VBL all night and slept warm and comfortable. Since the VBL wasn't completely sealed, I had some moderate ventilation, but this "burrito" style really helped my body regulate its temperature until my metabolism kicked in.

    In the morning, I pulled off my top quilt and my legs were still warm and cozy inside my tarp wrap. Pulling the tarp away, my legs immediately felt cool. It was amazing.

    Typically, VBLs are recommended only in very cold and dry conditions. I wanted to share this experience because it gave me a sort of "last resort" method for staying warm in unusual circumstances.

    While I was wrapped up enough to stay warm, there were enough "leaks" for venting that I didn't have any condensation issues. It was also very windy all night, which likely helped pull away a lot of moisture.
    Used my tarp this way a couple times. It is hard to refrain when you freeze in the middle of the night and your tarp lies there unused because you expect no rain and no dew. "Tomorrow is another day", thought I ! Actually it was the last day, so I didn't care about having my sleeping bag wet (didn't respect the protocole of having the VB inside). But oh my, what a good cozy night I had inside this tarp ! I woke up in great shape !

    I also put some plastic bags under my butt in desperation of warming it sometime, with great results and no sweating, actually the plastic bag was too thin, I think, so IMO it is all about dosing the remedy.
    Last edited by Rouskof; 01-18-2017 at 19:09.

  6. #96
    Senior Member La Picker's Avatar
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    Anyone have experience with one of these?

    https://www.campmor.com/c/vapor-barr...-regular-41360

    I just got one but haven't had a chance to give it a test run yet. I'll post an update when I do.

  7. #97
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    Not that particular brand and model but I’ve tried VB liners in sleeping bags when I was a ground sleeper. Even on the ground, I found the separate liners to be cumbersome. They did keep my down dry and added warmth but were a single purpose item so I moved to VB clothing which can be worn in the sleeping bag/quilt as well as while moving around. I bought Stephenson’s Fuzzy Stuff shirt, gloves and socks. The shirt is comfortable for me without a base layer due to the fuzzy lining against the skin. Because it is waterproof and wind proof and I generate a lot of heat and moisture when exerting, I can wear it alone down below freezing while backpacking and often open it up completely to vent excess heat and moisture. Even if I get wet from sweat, the shirt does not hold any water so as soon as I cool down, I can zip up and put on insulating layers and I don’t get sweat in my insulation layers. It completely blocks wind also so it does double duty as a wind shirt when not generating heat and sweat. It is not fashionable but very versatile and great when you will be out for multiple days in sub freezing weather and you use down insulation.

    The socks are great for many of the same reasons and, as another poster pointed out, keep moisture out of your footwear so you don’t risk frozen shoes/boots in the morning if you leave your footwear outside overnight. I usually hike in trail runners and find VB socks particularly helpful if I have to ford creeks in really cold weather. If the water is shallow and no danger of coming up over the tops of the VB socks, I just walk on through. If the water is deeper, I take off the VB socks, wade through (burr!) and then dry my feet, put the VB socks back on and keep on trucking. My feet warm up quickly and stay warm even though my shoes are soaked. I’ve had frozen fabric and shoelaces while walking but my feet were warm.

    If you hike in sub freezing temps, particularly for multiple days at a tine and you use down insulation I would recommend you give VB clothing a try. It is a little tricky to balance the venting and insulation with your exertion level but even if you misjudge and start to sweat, you won’t sweat out your insulation layers which is critical in really cold temps. I suggest reading the VB info at the Warmlite site. They have been proselytizing about VB for 40 years.

    Mark

  8. #98
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Picker View Post
    Anyone have experience with one of these?

    https://www.campmor.com/c/vapor-barr...-regular-41360

    I just got one but haven't had a chance to give it a test run yet. I'll post an update when I do.
    I was thinking about buying one of these. My experience with VB socks were SO amazing (warm feet after 20+ years of trouble) that I'm now looking to my sleep system. It hasn't been a problem yet, but I do get a lot of frost on my gear so I'm interested.

  9. #99
    OlTrailDog's Avatar
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    Excellent information and link.

    Although it is valuable to experiment with VB hammocking for "emergency" situations you might put your self in, I think the cons outweigh the pros for most situations. Normal trip length for camping trips most likely doesn't result in excessive moisture accumulation in your insulation layer, unless you are doing something wrong or ill advised, e.g. too much insulation that you sweat like a pig (I know it isn't really accurate). Extended trips in COLD temperatures, as stated, VBs can be very valuable.

    However, I have used VB socks, both silnylon and DIY plastic bags with inner liner socks. They work wonderfully for keeping telemark ski boot liners dry during extended back country travels. Most likely my feet would have been very uncomfortable or frost bitten without them. The other aspect of VBs is the abundance of bacteria that you create a tropical environment for. That is to say, your feet or body will be stinking. Also, using VB for extended periods can result in "trench foot" or "trench body" from the prolonged moisture and bacteria oasis you created.

  10. #100
    Senior Member OneClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlTrailDog View Post
    The other aspect of VBs is the abundance of bacteria that you create a tropical environment for. That is to say, your feet or body will be stinking. Also, using VB for extended periods can result in "trench foot" or "trench body" from the prolonged moisture and bacteria oasis you created.
    I'm glad I haven't experienced that. It's nice to air them out even if it's just for a few seconds. Once a day was plenty for me. No odor or excess sweat, which seems weird, but that's just how it works. At night my feet get plenty of airing out...8 hours at minimum, a lot more if I'm just relaxing in the morning before putting VB socks back on. And at night, a quick wipe-down with rubbing alcohol keeps things clean. I always bring a small .5oz bottle anyway for washing my face and maybe body; gives you a nice quick fresh feeling when a bath/shower isn't possible.

    I'm always pleasantly surprised when removing the VB socks. Every time I pause and think to myself "this is going to be gross"...but when I remove them it's basically just a slightly clammy foot. Probably not any worse than wearing a thicker sock by itself.

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