TRIP REPORT:Minnesota Frozen Butt Hang - January 7-9, 2011

[MacEntyre]

BTW, did anyone have any trouble with whoopie slings?

Mine did just fine, but I had to set them up with mittens off. I never touched them again, until I broke camp. I also had to remove my mittens to set up the Dutch clips, tie the marlin spike hitch, insert a toggle, and tie the tiny Speer no-tangle tarp lines.

I saw FourDog's suspension using daisy chains and a 'biner. It would be easy to use with mittens on. Because he had a canvas hammock sock, he had no tarp to tie out. Those little things rise in importance as further south of zero goes the temperature.

[pizza]

I had no issues with my Whoopie Slings either and I didn't touch them until I tore down my gear on the last day.

[tjm]

@fourdog,

I enjoyed your review. I did have some disagreement with a few of your opinions.

I think most of the disagreements originate from the fact that I hike and camp in New England, not the Upper Mid-West.

A few items I fully agree with:

1. fire-making skills - stop and make a small fire on every hike and all camping trips [for me that best part of hiking in the rain is stopping to make a small camp fire]

2. activity/clothing/moisture management - do not get so warm that you sweat into your insulating layers; if you are going to process wood for the fire, start out with layers that cause you to be pretty cold, you will warm up quickly

3. clothing - wools, wind-stopper fleece, down; I like to bring a mix of layers since they each have their own advantages

4. sleeping bags / quilts - every morning, they need to be placed in the sunlight to allow for as much drying [sublimation] as possible

5. hydration and high fat high calorie supper are required for a warm night's sleep

6. Peapod type systems work better than top quilts in deep cold. Underquilts need to mate very well with hammocks to be effective

6a. I find it very easy to attach underquilts to my bridge hammock without gaps to worry about or fiddle with. I also use an air pad and a CCF pad in the bridge sleeve. I nest two traditional sleeping bags as my "top quilt" which gives me the advantage of their construction features (integrated hoods, internal baffles, etc)

[The down side of this system is that I can't winter camp without a snow cover for my pulk]

7. Your snowshoes need to match the intended use. Each intended use has an ideal snowshoe design - Backcountry, Packed out high-use trials, Steep Ascents, Racing

Disagreements:

1. Cotton shells and mukluks
They seem to work well for deep cold in the Upper Mid-West & Canada but I am not sure if they would work as well in New England where a quick thaw and slushy WET conditions are always a possibility. I will keep my mind open to these choices - but I only know what I have learned here in New England and that is Cotton is the absolute worst choice if there is a possibility of it getting wet

2. Down booties
After I have gathered firewood and stomped out my camp area (including path to the latrine), I remove my boots and change out my socks to thick, loose fit, wool socks and slip on the down booties. They are not part of the sleep system. They are not footwear for working. They are an insulating layer for relaxing around the camp. Similar to the big puffy down jacket. Pure Luxury.

3. SOREL-type Pac Boots
This might be another New England thing. The rubber foot box is really essential. I wear a light liner sock and plastic bags as a vapor barrier. My felt liners don't get moisture in them. I do need air out my feet in camp with the wool socks and down booties. I bring extra sets of liner socks and dry out the ones I wore that day. This has worked well for me.

Thanks again for taking the time to write your opinions. I hope I have discussed my disagreements respectfully.

[keys?]

Yes, It worked perfect. I thought I had read somewhere that it didn't work good if the fuel can was freezing cold but I found that info to be bogus. It fired right up and boiled water as quick as always.

Awesome, good to know!

I read The Snow Walker's Companion, which Book gave me. It told me how to dress, as well as how to make anoraks and mukluks. It also included pics of my Akhio sled, so that I felt confident no one would laugh! (Turned out many folks have had them before.)

TZ loaned me four books after the hang:

Okpik: Cold-Weather Camping, Boy Scouts of America, 1990 (TZ's top choice)

Winter Hiking and Camping, John A. Danielsen, 2nd ed., 1977

Winter Camping, Bob Cary, 1979

The Complete Snow Camper's Guide, Raymond Bridge, 1973

Four Dog gave us each two pamphlets:

The Two Kilogram Survival Kit Field Manual, Mors Kochanski, 2000

Tools of Survival and Survival Training, Mors Kochanski, 1999

I have had the 1970 Dept of the Army Field Manual FM 21-76, Survival. for years. I have found lots of interesting things in it!

- MacEntyre

Thanks Mac, now onward to Amazon!! P.S. I thought for sure your mukluks were store bought!

[stairguy]

[QUOTE=tjm;390626]@fourdog,

I enjoyed your 1. Cotton shells and mukluks
They seem to work well for deep cold in the Upper Mid-West & Canada but I am not sure if they would work as well in New England where a quick thaw and slushy WET conditions are always a possibility. I will keep my mind open to these choices - but I only know what I have learned here in New England and that is Cotton is the absolute worst choice [U]if there is a possibility of it getting wet[/U

I believe people well versed w/the use of cotton anoraks, wind pants and canvas muklucks, realize their limitations and adjust their clothing to suit. In warmer conditions I always have my gore-tex outer shells as a backup. I even carried them on this trip. My boot choices also change w/conditions.

I also believe, people who have never used cotton exterior shells or canvas muklucks cannot realize their benefits.

Cotton should never be used as a winter base layer, including cotton long-johns

On the other hand , you will never find me comfortabbly cozying up to a fire in my expensive gore-tex, down and nylon layers.

[mbiraman]

[QUOTE=stairguy;390657]

@fourdog,

I enjoyed your 1. Cotton shells and mukluks
They seem to work well for deep cold in the Upper Mid-West & Canada but I am not sure if they would work as well in New England where a quick thaw and slushy WET conditions are always a possibility. I will keep my mind open to these choices - but I only know what I have learned here in New England and that is Cotton is the absolute worst choice [U]if there is a possibility of it getting wet[/U

I believe people well versed w/the use of cotton anoraks, wind pants and canvas muklucks, realize their limitations and adjust their clothing to suit. In warmer conditions I always have my gore-tex outer shells as a backup. I even carried them on this trip. My boot choices also change w/conditions.

I also believe, people who have never used cotton exterior shells or canvas muklucks cannot realize their benefits.

Cotton should never be used as a winter base layer, including cotton long-johns

On the other hand , you will never find me comfortabbly cozying up to a fire in my expensive gore-tex, down and nylon layers.

+1 on the above. Each one of us has to gain knowledge as to what works for ourselves in our area or what ever area we are going to be in. This was a very cold weather hang and so many things apply to that. I love wearing wool but i have to wait till it gets cold to wear all but the lightest wool.I think its good to learn about the whole range if one plans to be in the woods at all times of the yr. I thought the most inportant peice of advice in Fourdogs report was "gear doesn't replace skills".

[MacEntyre]

In the planning thread, it was emphasized that canvas footwear and outerwear were only good in conditions guaranteed not to exceed 20*F. FourDog says 10*F. Above those temps, you have to use waterproof footwear. I took FourDog's suggestion and bought Tingley's overboots so that I could shift the liners and socks from my mukluks to the Tingley's and keep on truckin'!

Just standing around the fire resulted in my mukluks getting wet... but they have no sole, just another layer of leather.

At Overmountain shelter, where it was 25*F at the lowest, the shoulders of my anorak got wet from snow that melted from my own warmth. Once it's wet, it's no good.

[tjm]

@ stairguy
@ mbiraman
@ MacEntyre

Thanks for the quick replies.

I guess I was mixing up weather conditions vs geography. So it was not a New England vs. Upper Mid West issues as much as it is knowing what the weather conditions will be.

So to summarize, if you are reasonably certain that temps will stay cold [say less than 10 deg F], using a cotton overlayer & canvas mukluks provides a windproof layer that works allows moisture out and is tolerant of sparks from the camp fire.

Materials that work well for mixed conditions are more flammable so they are not camp fire friendly and their breathablility is reduced due to the extreme cold.

Thanks again

[Carver]

Timber crews would wear wool in the winter but would switch out to Filson Jackets and Filson Tin Pants in the spring when conditions were apt to be wet. Treated cotton is very different than regular cotton. Has anyone tried to use treated cotton for an anorak? It sheds rain but also breathes.

[fourdog]

Timber crews would wear wool in the winter but would switch out to Filson Jackets and Filson Tin Pants in the spring when conditions were apt to be wet. Treated cotton is very different than regular cotton. Has anyone tried to use treated cotton for an anorak? It sheds rain but also breathes.

It does not breathe well anough in the lower temps and the old wax treatment
become to stiff.
You basicly have to have the right clothing for wet cold (down to 10*F)
or dry cold. (below 10*F)

fourdog

www.fourdog.com