Help! most uncomfortable I've ever been!

[rict]

I'm hoping someone of you hammock experts can tell me what I'm doing wrong...

I'm new to hammocks; only slept in mine (Skeeter Beater) a few times now, each time for only a few hours. I've read many of the posts here over the past few months and watched a bunch of hammock videos on Youtube (Shug is very informative).

Today I setup my hammock in my yard, to test out my "cold weather system": a segmented CCF pad with a truck windshield reflector bonded to it, along with a down throw modified with shock cord threaded thru the end seams to cinch it closed on each end.

I was in wool socks, polypro undershirt & pants, light wool overshirt, and balaclava (my neck gets cold otherwise). According to the online weather, it is 40 degrees F right now (I just came inside), and I was definately warm enough. That's not the problem.

I think the problem is the "angle of the dangle", in setting up the hammock. I tried to use the "Hammock Hang Calculator" by Derek Hansen, with these settings:
14' between the trees, ridgeline length of 8' (I think that's what the SB has), and a preferred sit height of 24".

The program gave me a hang point of about 6.5', with 3.5' suspension length. However, I must not understand the exact terms, because when I tied my hammock up using these measured distances, the bottom of the hammock (unloaded) was over 4' from the ground.

So, here are my first questions; is the suspension length measured from the tree attachment point to the gathered end of the hammock? How is the ridgeline length measured? I from gathered end to gathered end while it lay on the ground...Is the sit height measured loaded or unloaded?

4' off the ground was too high to comfortably get into the hammock, so I ran the program with a sit height of 18", and re-rigged it at the modifed hang point of just over 6'.

That brought the unloaded height down to a more comfortable area, and I "went to bed" in the hammock about 10pm. I gave up & came inside the house just now (about 1am) for several reasons: my back, knees, and hips were just too painful to continue even after trying many different positions at several different angles; and when I went to get out of the hammock, I found that the lowest part of the hammock (my butt) was only about 1" off the ground.

That brings me to my next set of questions: do I need a wider (double sized) hammock, to allow me more of an angle to lay at? I was using a combination of tree straps that came with my Hennesey (I decided I didn't like the bottom entry of that hammock), and the ropes that came with the SB...is that what caused the sag over time?

I know this is a lot of questions, but I'm hoping someone here can help me; I'm sure that all these problems are being caused by my ignorance, but I really want a hammock system to work for me.

[oldgringo]

Oy.

Throw away the tape measure. Hang your hammock so it looks about right...nice sag, comfortable height...get in, try it out. You may elect to run with that, but probably not, so start tweaking. The sweet spot is in there, somewhere, and you'll find it. Over time, you'll get a pretty good idea of what you're looking for, and it will become second nature.

Try to go to one of our hangs...one weekend with a bunch of folks that have been down the road will really flatten out your learning curve.

[chillyhiker]

sounds like it was strung to tight...the sag is really important. your lookig for about a 30degree angle from the trees to the ground for the suspension.

[canoebie]

OG speaks wisely. (most of the time ) Forget the specific stuff, use some common sense, eyeball it, test it, tweak it. I usually try to find trees about 5 strides apart, hang about head high with bottom of hammock so I can sit comfortably. I also hang the foot end 4-6 inches higher than the head end.

Keep trying, you will get it. I sleep in a Claytor that is only 48 inches wide and get very comfortable.

[GrizzlyAdams]

ok, so a representative of the left-brain dominant HF community will weigh in here. What you want to know is "what is common sense" as canobie aptly put it, but without experience how can you know what common sense is? The calculator, used properly with proper measurements, can help be a guide.

0. As has been noted already, the comfort problem is due to lack of sag.

1. The ridgeline assures a minimum sag by keeping the two ends of the hammock from being pulled too far apart. The SB doesn't have a piece of cord constraining the two, it doesn't have a ridgeline. If you laid out the hammock on the ground and measured the distance between the ends and got 8', that's not the ridgeline, that's the effective length of the hammock. Using 8' on the calculator would
make it think the hammock is longer than it is, and result both in not having the sag you want and have the sit height be higher than the calculator predicts.

The SB advertised specs give the dimensions as 9.5' long, so that must be
the unfinished length. But 8' "feels" too short to me even accounting for some loss at the ends. You might look at that again.

A ridgeline is a very handy thing for ensuring you get the right sag. Suggest you put on one, make it adjustable, and start with it being 83% of the measured length of the hammock. Should be cord that will take, oh, 150 lbs of load.

2. As regards the calculator, with the measurements you gave, 6'5 up on the tree seemed overly high to me. I go that high up with trees 20 or more feet apart, 14' apart is close to minimum distance between the trees. So I calculated what the attachment height ought to be with those assumptions and the calculator's seeming assumption that the angle from the center of the hammock to the tree (when a body is sitting in the hammock at the center point) is 30 degrees. The calculator seems to be a little off, or my assumptions about what it assumes are off. The distance
from the sit point up to the tree attachment should be (seemingly according to the calculator diagram) half the distance between trees times the tangent of 30 degrees. With this particular set of measurements, trig gives the attach point at a hair over 6', the calculator gives 6.6' .

The suspension length the calculator computes looks OK.

3. The sit height assumed by the calculator should be interpreted as the height when you are sitting in center of the hammock. So it will be higher unloaded.

4. So what do you really need to do? Adjust your suspension lengths so that the angle the suspension forms is about 30 degrees from the horizontal, and the attachment points on the tree puts the center of the hammock a little bit higher than you want to hang off the ground. Get the angle right first, and then shimmy the attachment points up or down the tree as needed to adjust the height. A way to figure whether the suspension angle is around 30 degrees is to take your hand, extend the index finger straight out, and pull your thumb up and back as far as you can. The way kids make the hand look like a pistol. If you imagine a line from the tip of the index finger to the tip of the thumb, the angle of that line with respect to your index finger is pretty close to 30 degrees. So take your pistol hand, make the tip of the thumb and tip of the index touch the suspension, and ask whether your index finger is parallel to the ground.

[turtlelady]

Grizz --Thanks for the right brained way for me to eye ball that 30* angle. I never thought I would be "carrying" but THAT multi-functional pistol is always with me. No worries of wear to store it; it is always close to hand.

[canoebie]

Good job Grizz, I am definitely right brained, more intuitive. The pistol idea is fantastic. I will use that as a reference for newbies that I hang with. Love it. Take away for the day.

[GrizzlyAdams]

Good job Grizz, I am definitely right brained, more intuitive. The pistol idea is fantastic. I will use that as a reference for newbies that I hang with. Love it. Take away for the day.

Thx
I picked up the pistol thing here on HF, forget who first floated it.

Just sharing the wealth....

[Roadrunnr72]

.A way to figure whether the suspension angle is around 30 degrees is to take your hand, extend the index finger straight out, and pull your thumb up and back as far as you can. The way kids make the hand look like a pistol. If you imagine a line from the tip of the index finger to the tip of the thumb, the angle of that line with respect to your index finger is pretty close to 30 degrees. So take your pistol hand, make the tip of the thumb and tip of the index touch the suspension, and ask whether your index finger is parallel to the ground.

WOW, TY, never heard that, and it makes it easy to figure. I can now leave my protractor at home.

[Bubba]

I'm a feel kind of guy and say hang the hammock, use the 30 degree/finger thumb method as a starting point, and use trial and error. We are all different sizes and shapes and need different positions for comfort. If your have 14 feet to work with, then 6 to 6.5 feet for the attachment points is a good start but get in it and tweek until you find your comfort zone. Keep at it and you'll get it.