Eureka Chrysalis Under Quilt

[genegene]

Hi everyone,

OK, so I have been lurking here for a few weeks before joining and want to say that for a forum, this place is one of the best places to come to get help from what I have been reading.

My Background:

I recently purchased the Eureka Chrysalis and a Eureka Eagle Point Long (rated to -15F) I plan on doing some winter camping with some friends up in Long Lake New York at the end of February and decided on this set up.
I have never used a hammock to camp with and am looking forward to the experience. I like the idea that there is the possibility of a little swaying to help rock me to sleep at night. I also like that the chrysalis has the top so I don't have to worry about bugs and snow and whatever, and some heat retention.

some of my friends have already made the comments that I'm going to be in a bear burrito but I just laugh at them

Now for my Questions, (please excuse some of the things I list as there is so much to remember

1) Has anyone made an UnderQuilt for one yet?

2) Will I need an underquilt if I have a space blanket, blue closed cell pad and an self inflating ground pad in the Hammock?

3) Where would I find Climashield, Insultex, Thermadrape, If I wanted to make an underquilt using any of them?

4) What is the difference between the Rip Stop Nylon that I can get at my local Jo Ann Fabrics (Its a local fabric store here in the Northeast) and any of the places listed here.

5) If I went with Down for an underquilt, How "thick" should I make it for a night with expected temps from +20 to a minn of -20?

6) I have a 20 Degree bag that I can stuff into my -15 bag to add some extra heat and was wondering what that might get me to in terms of temp rating?


I'm sure that I will have many more questions as time progress but I think that this is enough for tonight (and it 12:04am here on the east cost).

Gene G.

P.S. Thanks for bringing me here Shug. I'm still learning from your Vids on youtube. Keep up the good work.

[Festus Hagen]

Wow I can't answer too many of those questions.

It kind of rung a bell that the Chrysalis is a bridge, Arrowhead is now making a 3/4 UQ for bridge hammocks Jarbridge River. It's kind of a lighter unit though, not really what you want in Long Lake in February unless perhaps to supplement with a pad or some IX or something.

All I will add is, the winter camping trip I do in the 'dacks annually is near Saranac, so far the coldest we've seen was -17 (we camp a bit earlier in February) but it can get a whole lot worse. Using another bag inside the Eureka bag you mention sounds like a great idea, I think that Eagle Point is a roomy bag. I use a heavy polarfleece bag inside my Browning -30 rated bag and it really helps, if things got really grim I suppose a 20-rated mummy bag in it's place would help even more.

Good luck!

[Cold Butt Stephen]

4) What is the difference between the Rip Stop Nylon that I can get at my local Jo Ann Fabrics (Its a local fabric store here in the Northeast) and any of the places listed here.

There is a lot of variety in nylon ripstop. I have both bought it from JoAnn's and from backwoodsdaydreamer.com. The fabric that I bought from JoAnn's felt like 1.9 oz/sq yd, but I don't know for sure. When I ordered it, I was able to get 1.1 ounce (or a different weight if I wanted it) and it was cheaper than JoAnn's, even with a 50% off coupon. Backwoods Daydreamer is an awesome site with great customer service and great prices. The only advantage of JoAnn's is really the convenience.

Sorry, but I think this is the only question that I'm actually qualified to answer. I'm sure someone more experienced will chime in.

[wisenber]

I'm not saying it won't work, but it will be a bit of a challenge. The way the canopy is attached would probably prevent any form of UQ from attaching. With the canopy that close in, you will probably have some condensation issues even with the vent hole open.
That being said, a CCF pad and an inflatable mattress with enough R value should take you into the teens without much worry.
I've not seen one in person, but from what I here, it is somewhat of a bridge hammock. That means you can sleep pretty flat which might keep your shoulders from pressing against the canopy or hammock walls and compressing your insulation. If it does, you might consider taking a cheap pad and cutting a section to span around your shoulders.

Now if I'm wrong about how the canopy fastens and the hammock is a plain bridge style hammock, you're ability to make an UQ just got easier. A bridge hammock can used a plain rectangular quilt for an UQ. Check out JacksRBetter.com to get a look at their offering for UQ's.

Now as for -20's F... That's a WHOLE other ballgame! The rulle of thumb for down is 1" per 20 degrees starting at 70 degrees. In other words, 1" is 70-20=50. So for 10 degrees, you would need 70-10=60. 60 degrees of insulation needed divided by 20 degrees per inch gives you 60/20=3. So three inches of down. Bear in mind, this is really just a rule of thumb. The colder it gets, the less linear insulation values are. In reality, once you've hit 20 degrees, that next inch of down may only provide 15 degrees of warmth instead of 20. At present, there is no commercially available UQ rated to -20 F. Many of us have gone below 0, but those temps usually require a combination of approaches such as stacking UQ's or combining an UQ with a pad(s) or hammock socks or a ton of clothing.

For the temps you're talking about, I would have two pieces of advise. First try hanging outside in some colder temps near your house before jumping into a situation that your life could well depend on. Secondly, if you need to get to at least 0 F, use down or even a down air mattress. Insultex alone and Thermadrape won't do it without A LOT of reasearch and development. Most folks don't go below the teens with Climashield either.

Welcome! Good luck! And keep us posted.

[oldgringo]

Gene, I admire your courage, but I think you're making a big mistake. There is a learning curve associated with hammock camping, and in extreme cold temps, that curve is steep and dangerous. Please be careful, and have some sort of fallback plan in place.

I second Wisenber's advice, re: backyard hanging. Make your mistakes at home.

[Festus Hagen]

Well said, O.G.

A bit more about my setup to give some perspective... in February I did a three night trip which took us down to -13F on the coldest night, with all of them below zero.

I had a double-layer DD hammock, did not use my bug net though. No overcover, just a tarp, and the tarp was diamond-shaped, not rigged with doors or closed ends.

I had a -30 rated Browning Kenai bag which I zip into, I notice on the website they have downgraded this same bag to -20 which I think is still a little optimistic, just my opinion. Inside that bag I had a heavy polarfleece bag, and wore a layer of polypro tops and bottoms, wool socks, and a microfleece balaclava.

For bottom insulation I used a DD Underblanket (which is designed for gathered-end hammocks, not sure how it would work with a bridge). I brought pads but did not use them. I'm not sure what the DD is rated to but it packs similar to a +15 rated mummy bag I have (although lighter).

I was fine at -13 and had some overhead to go colder. That's just me though, and I had tested all of this gear (except for the polarfleece bag) while car-camping more locally and backyard testing so I had at least an idea what it would do (problem is, it's almost never below zero here at home).

I like that your Eureka hammock comes with an overcover, for this year I'll be using a Molly Mac Insulated Hammock Sock to achieve about the same effect and boost my UQ just a little. Also, using a SB and supplementing that with an UQ seems to me like it has a better chance of working than using a TQ/UQ combo, although there are people on here who can certainly camp in the 'Dacks in February with their TQ/UQ.

If you're going to do this, try to stack the deck in your favor. Go to bed well-fed and hydrated, be prepared to set up a hot water bottle, and if possible be prepared to go to ground, either with space in another tent or in a vehicle if need be. Try some test hangs in the meantime if you can.

[genegene]

Thanks for all the advice and I took it all to heart.

I went out Friday night with a friend on the Appalachian trail to a Lean-to and did a trial of my new gear. The lowest it got in temps was 17.1 degrees min and 22.9 max and it was a great learning experience for me. I am truly glad I did a lot of reading here on the forums and had the proper gear for testing in the winter.

I am going to post my reviews about the hammock for winter use in the review section along with the pros and cons.

As for useing an under quilt, It is going to be easy to attach one but getting one to actually fit it is another story. With the 2 "pouches" on both ends the quilt will have to modified to fit it ie.. curved on the ends. For my trip I resided to placing my old sleeping bag inside the hammock over my CCpad.

I only used my -15 bag but ended up placing my 20 Degree bag on top of like a blanket to add to the warmth. There was a noticeable difference in temp where the bag was touching the -15 and not touching it. If it were truly to get to -15 I think I would have had to add a lot more clothing to my body. I did not have a inner bag liner.

As far as my first night in a hammock goes, I had a great time except for the ice inside the hammock in the morning. We had fresh snow and a slight breeze every now and then.

Thanks everyone for the info and advice. I cant wait to get back out in the woods this winter to try out some new things and mods that I am working on.

Gene G.

[Danalex]

Without pics it didn't happen so better post some toot sweet

Did you have the vents open to let some warm moist air out? I read that is necessary as the top isn't breathable.

How did you find the comfort level?

Don't the head and foot end fall below your head and foot? So really no need for a quilt that long. It only needs to cover your shoulders down to the bottom of your heels and unless you're over 6' you shouldn't have any body parts in there.

Next year there will be a new Chrysalis with a pad sleeve.

[genegene]

Without pics it didn't happen so better post some toot sweet

I am new at posting here on the forums so bare with me on posting them here in this topic. I need to read the "how to" to get them right. I have posted 4 on my profile so if you want to see some jump over there for now.

I don't have many since my batteries kept dieing on me because it was so dang cold out. I do have some vid that I took but I'm not sure if that will do for you

Pay no mind to the yellow tarp that is covering it partially. It is something that I am working on and since I don't have any real space here in my apartment and parking lot to set it up so I took it to work on some ideas on the trail.

Did you have the vents open to let some warm moist air out? I read that is necessary as the top isn't breathable.

Nope, that is the one mistake I did make and it was a big one.

Lots of ice inside the hammock in the morning to deal with. Luckily I was only out for one night so I am able to dry it out before I need to get back into it.

I would say that during the winter keeping at least one open is a must. Having a tarp is recommended to keep out any snow that may try and get in. A 4 season would be the best as it will also help with any cold breeze as well.

I think that if someone wanted to do a mod to the 2 vents that are located only on one end, you could add a pouch that would hold a small fan to blow out some of that moisture, like in your bathroom when you turn on the fan to take a shower.

How did you find the comfort level?

I was actually very comfortable and slept quite well since I was able to twist and turn into any position I wanted to body wise. I did notice that I seemed to slide more towards the foot end occasionally and had to adjust my self upwards. I did not wake up because of it but fixed myself when ever I was awake.

On a scale of 1-10 I would rate it a 8 on this trip, but it is also the winter and I don't want define it on one night of sleep. There are also other factors that will come into play when I try it again based on what I have learned during my first night. I will tell you that it was better then my bed at home. We need to get a new bed so this was a very good nights sleep

Don't the head and foot end fall below your head and foot? So really no need for a quilt that long. It only needs to cover your shoulders down to the bottom of your heels and unless you're over 6' you shouldn't have any body parts in there.

Yes, the head and foot "pouches" start at about the location of the spreader bars. These are just over 6 feet from one to the other. I stand at just under 6ft and I can easily get my feet under the foot bar and not have my head hit the head bar. I like it this way.

The best place to hang the underquilt (if one can be made for it) is to use the spreader bar loops on the outside ends. Even doing that I'm not sure that you can attach one the way it should be attached like a non bridge hammock is shaped.

The way the hammock is designed, the sides Velcro under the hammock so your underquilt will be over the sides, or you will have to have cut outs in the quilt just to be able to be able to close it up.

For the time being I would say that if you want an under quilt you will have to use it inside the hammock, but then would it still be called an under quilt?

Do you need a full under quilt that will go from one bar to the other? It all depends on the user I guess.

Next year there will be a new Chrysalis with a pad sleeve.

I have seen the new set up and I'm not crazy about having to order everything separate. I like the idea that I only payed $116 for it and it had the top with it.
The idea of having a space built in to it for a pad or under quilt is a good idea but it will increase the overall weight by a few oz. I am working on striping the pounds so I can use it on the trail.

[Danalex]

I was actually very comfortable and slept quite well since I was able to twist and turn into any position I wanted to body wise. I did notice that I seemed to slide more towards the foot end occasionally and had to adjust my self upwards. I did not wake up because of it but fixed myself when ever I was awake. ]

I like the sound of being able to twist and turn during the night. I'm pretty active when sleeping as my joints stiffen up so I need to constantly move to easy the soreness. I find the BB very limiting this way. I'm super comfortable from the shoulders to my hips but after that it's not so good. Tonight i'm going to try a piece of foam to raise my hips up higher.

[Yes, the head and foot "pouches" start at about the location of the spreader bars. These are just over 6 feet from one to the other. I stand at just under 6ft and I can easily get my feet under the foot bar and not have my head hit the head bar. I like it this way.

The best place to hang the underquilt (if one can be made for it) is to use the spreader bar loops on the outside ends. Even doing that I'm not sure that you can attach one the way it should be attached like a non bridge hammock is shaped.

The way the hammock is designed, the sides Velcro under the hammock so your underquilt will be over the sides, or you will have to have cut outs in the quilt just to be able to be able to close it up.]

Yeah, I forgot about the velcro getting in the way of the UQ. Maybe Insultex cut to fit around the velcro?

I have seen the new set up and I'm not crazy about having to order everything separate. I like the idea that I only payed $116 for it and it had the top with it.
The idea of having a space built in to it for a pad or under quilt is a good idea but it will increase the overall weight by a few oz. I am working on striping the pounds so I can use it on the trail.

Yes it can get expensive with the new outfit .. but if it's a good sleep it's not wasted money. The new one has different cinch buckles and aluminim bars and c-clips or something instead of the big biners so it's a bit lighter. I'm wondering if it's worth it to wait or get one on sale like the old ones are and then start trimming like you are.

The hammock and bug net alone look good and then use a tarp over it.