Herb had another comment that was interesting:
I am not willing to use nothing but IX in really cold weather, although I have done... to 8*F with good results. IX complements down very well, though, without a weight, bulk or cost penalty.Originally Posted by Edbeteze
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
Great thread. I have been planning on getting one of the newest designs of IX, or maybe even some DIY. In the meantime I have one of MMG's very 1st designs, except it has added "Insul tubes". Edbeteze, when you say 3 layers, do you mean 3 full length layers? Or is that 2 full length plus Insultubes/torsoheater?
Re: IX between hammock and down: I also recently had a thread where I used 2 layer plus Insultube (~8 oz) IX between hammock and PeaPod with no TQ in the 30s, which I jokingly called "Too Dang Hot". IOW, it really worked well. But though I had the IX pulled tight, I had a small gap between the PeaPod bottom layer and the IX. You guys using a dif cut Phoenix, are you pulling that UQ tight against the IX or trying to leave it kind of loose?
Last edited by BillyBob58; 02-02-2011 at 11:20.
I don't know if Herb is following this thread, so with all due respect, I will continue to speak on his behalf.
All Molly Mac Gear IX UQs have the InsulTubes 2'x3' sewn-in Torso Heater. When Herb said 3 layers, he was referring to the full length layers. He had 3 layers, plus his Torso Heater layer.
Gaps matter very little when the IX is inside the PeaPod. They go away when you optimize the fit of the PeaPod.
Herb said that he rigged it tight.
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
Thank you MacEntyre! Yes, I am used to optimizing the fit of the pod to minimize the gap, that is my usual approach. But I left a small gap on purpose so the pod would not be in contact with the IX. I did that based on all the previous discussion about how IX needs a small gap to optimize it's warmth.
But it appears, based on Herb rigging it tight, and canoebie presumably doing the same thing, that a fabric touching- even in tight contact with-
the outer layer of IX is not a problem.
I guess if I had optimized my pod for ~ zero bottom gap on that night, I would have started sweating. As I was already so warm I was having to do some venting. Of course, I still don't know for absolute sure that night's results were all do to the addition of the 2 layers/+torso IX. But I sure don't know what else would account for me being so much warmer ( ON TOP! ) than with the same basic set up at similar temps previously. (actually, with probably a bit less insulation on top than previously)
If it was due to the IX under the hammock, then it appears retaining enough warmth below- especially in a "closed" or otherwise draft proof set up, adds a whole bunch to top warmth. Or at least it does in a PeaPod. Apparently.
You have channeled me perfectly Mac... To expand a bit on both UQs--I found that rigging them tight, with no one in the hammock so they are truly snug against the hammock, seems to be, for me anyway, the best way to maximize their use. The Colorado hang was the first time I had a chance to really fuss and fidget with hammock suspension, tarp rigging and UQ insulation, besides playing around in the backyard, and I learned a lot.
Re: the UQs, I knew that the Shamu acts as a semi-permeable vapor barrier based on info from MacEntyre so I wanted that right up against the hammock bottom. When I placed an order for the Phoenix, Thorwren also suggested that I place the Shamu against the hammock first and then hang the Phoenix.
Previously, I had mistakenly hung the Shamu a bit loose because I thought I needed an air gap. Really, what I needed to do was to shorten the end shockcords significantly to push the Shamu up against the hammock as much as reasonably possible. I just put a knot halfway down the cord that's attached to the end loops and then looped the shockcord around the hammock's end knobs which really brought the Shamu up tight.
Because the Shamu was up tightly against the hammock, the ends gapped open and--here's where the new end channels came into play--I just closed up the ends with the end channel cords and had a closed UQ all the way around. I put the Phoenix Winter UQ on the outside of the Shamu and shortened the end loops the same way (making a knot halfway down the loop) and looped them over the hammock's end knobs as well to pull that UQ up tightly against the Shamu.
In the end, I had two UQs in Colorado: the full length Shamu (with an extra full-length inside IX layer), and the 3/4 Phoenix Winter UQ, for bottom insulation and I was truly toasty for the first time hanging in 15*F.
The Shamu is made up of 2 full-length layers of Insultex (IX) with another 2' x 3' piece of IX sandwiched in between in the torso area, and an outer layer of nylon on the bottom side, so 2 and 1/2 layers? The well-designed Shamu and Phoenix UQs are differentially cut so I could really pull them up tight without fear of damaging them in any way.
I know this may be controversial, and it is only my humble opinion, but given my experience with IX now, in the equation of weight vs. warmth vs. cost, IX has an advantage over down. However, the area where IX gives way to down is compressibility--an important factor, especially in winter camping, where pack space is an issue. For a given warmth rating, I've found down compresses about to about half of the volume of the equivalent IX.
Solvitur Ambulando - Diogenes
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
Yes--it's the differential cut that I was ignoring at first by not tightening it up, thus defeating the design. I'll have to get a compression sack and see just far I can compress the Shamu and insert.
Solvitur Ambulando - Diogenes
- MacEntyre
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." - Ben Franklin
www.MollyMacGear.com
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