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  1. #1
    Senior Member HappyCamper's Avatar
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    What is a hammock's best defense against fog?

    This discussion started on another thread and I'd like to hear what people's experiences are with fog. I want to start more cold weather camping (which I've never done with a tent or a hammock) but where I live we get lots of that dense heavy winter fog. Today was the perfect example. Like soup most of the day. What is the best defense??

    Here are Just Jeff comments when I asked this question about hammock socks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
    I think socks/pods will help a bit when a thick fog rolls in b/c it'll condense on the outside of the sock/pod rather than on the underquilt and in the hammock, especially if you also use a tarp to block the first contact.

    But for consistent thick fog, I doubt anything will keep you really dry. It's just like any other breathable fabric...there has to be a difference in moisture on either side of the fabric for it to breathe. Once the moisture reaches equilibrium on each side (i.e. it's just as humid outside the sock as it is inside), the fabric will stop passing moisture.

    If you put something over your mouth to block the moisture from your breath from going into the sock, you can probably increase the time the sock will protect you quite a bit. Then hope the fog blows through before you start getting wet inside.

    In practice, I've experienced very little condensation in my sock, even when I was zipped all the way in side. One time I slept with my 8yo inside the sock, next to a river (Congaree National Park, SC)...it was in the 40s and pretty humid, and condensation wasn't a problem at all.

    But this year at Mt Rogers I had A LOT of condensation. I think it was b/c it was so cold outside (low 20s) that the moisture condensed and froze as soon as it hit the fabric, rather than passing through. It was also very humid that night...a freezing fog coated all the trees and made some beautiful pictures so I'm sure that contributed as well. But this makes me reconsider how well a full sock will work in sub-freezing temps. I think better ventilation might be needed, especially right around the head. That's one reason I wanted the zippered style...so I can experiment with different covers in different conditions.

    So based on my experience, socks work best in:
    - Dry conditions
    - Windy conditions - to block the wind and so wind can carry away some moisture from the fabric. But this can also work against you b/c, as mentioned above, it can push the wet fabric against you. This probably varies with humidity, how the wind hits your setup, ventilation, etc.
    - Above freezing temps, or at least close enough to freezing that the moisture can pass through the fabric before it condenses/freezes on it.

    I've measured ~10F difference in heat retained inside the sock, so I think it has a place in my kit...just gotta figure out how it works with a sub-freezing setup b/c I only have a handful of nights with it in those conditions.

  2. #2
    Peter_pan's Avatar
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    The breathable JRB Weather Shield Set is a great answer for those that have the original models.... That material is no longer available... however there is a new Weather Shield Type II that is just entering low rate initial production.... Hopefully they will be up on the JRB site soon....For those who were observant the prototype was at the Mt Rogers Winter hang out.

    FWIW, There is one of the original WS Bottoms still available.... It was a demo used just once, pristine.... Hammock Engineer was interested in it but that was a couple weeks back.... If he hasn't spoken up by COB Monday,it will become available.... PM me if you want to be considered if HE passes.

    Pan
    Ounces to Grams.

    www.jacksrbetter.com ... Largest supplier of camping quilts and under quilts...Home of the Original Nest Under Quilt, and Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock. 800 595 0413

  3. #3
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    has anyone considered trying to guy the sides tight so they can't be blown against the hammock?

  4. #4
    Senior Member angrysparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyCamper View Post
    What is the best defense??
    Aside from getting the most protection you can from your tarp, I think a hammock sock is the only real defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    has anyone considered trying to guy the sides tight so they can't be blown against the hammock?
    I used some grip-clips on my hammock sock in backyard testing, but because mine has a zipper on the side it made closing it a bit trickier. In theory it should help, though.

    The zipper is so very handy for entry and for venting adjustment that I'm sold on it's usefulness.
    “I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy

  5. #5
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    A:
    1:100% waterproof non-breathable shell or bivy/sock out side of insulation ( outer most layer) plus
    2: vapor barrier clothing or liner bag ?

    I realize this is impractical for most folks, it's just a theory on something that might work if cold fog was a serious enough problem.

    I can see in theory that this would keep any moisture from getting through to your down from the outside ( fog/snow or rain) and at the same time keep keeping body moisture- sweat or vapor- out of the insulation also. Most would probably not like the sensation of the VB, but it should keep you warm and maintain your bags/quilt/pod/UQ's loft fully intact. It might be better than freezing. A possible problem might be if it was not an integral waterproof shell inside and out, and the fog managed to get around the water/vapor barrier, especilally as you get in and out of the hammock or if you need to vent.

    2: Use pads ( or maybe synthetic UQ) and Climashield XP ( or Primaloft, delta or whatever) bag or quilt with a bit of reserve in the temp rating, and just forget about the fog. Things might get a bit damp and you might be a bit colder on top than you had planned ( should be no problems on bottom with pads), but you should survive well enough and your bags will dry very quickly. In fact, with a hot water bottle plus adequate body heat, I can't imagine your insulation ( inside at least) not being dry during the night, fog or no fog. ( Though I remember somebody here reporting a wet synthetic bag caused by fog. I can't remember how they did but they did live)

    I speak from experience, having slept in a very damp, maybe even wet, Hollofil bag ( worn out with much loft loss even before it got wet) in a 24* blowing snowstorm. Under a tarp open on the ends. Plus all of my synthetic clothing was very damp or wet. Every thing was wet after hiking all day in said snowstorm and doing a Tyrolean traverse river crossing( I don't do crazy stuff like that anymore! LOL). I was cold but I lived, and by morning most of my clothing and the bag were pretty well dry. More than once I have worn wet clothing to bed and woke up to warm, dry clothes. But of course, none of it was down. I have also done ice cold river crossings ( wading ) with what they used to call "bunting" synthetic pants ( fleece, basically) on. Within 10 minutes of vigorous hiking, they would be quite dry. I had an instructor who once fell through the ice into the Yellowstone river in winter. He had on all polyester fleece/pile clothing. He just cross country skied like a mad man, and in a short while he was dry and safe.

    My Olympic mountain trip last Sept. was very foggy, for days. ( not continuous) I had a PG bag with a WPB shell (Endurance). I could never detect any moisture in it at all. My friend had a BA Ranger down bag. By the end of the trip he was starting to worry about dampness his bag seemed to be accumulating. Though there was was usually just enough sunshine most days that he was able to keep it dries out and warm enough for the temps.

    These are just my experiences, observations and theories. They may not be correct. Others will feel differently, I'm sure. They are also flavored with the experience of being many days from any trailhead, where a wet down bag would have more serious implications than just cutting a trip short long enough to get to town and dry your bag. But, this is not to say I haven't used down bags these deep wilderness trips- I have and I have done fine. But I was always a little paranoid about my bag getting wet, plus I never had to deal with long periods of fog.

    OTOH, if down must be used and you don't want VB's inside and out, I don't know what to do about fog. Fog is weird anyway. In Salt Lake City we used to have these fogs with about 10 feet visability. It would be 10*, or 5*. How does moisture hang in the air when it is 10*? I never could figure that one out. ( and if it's cold enough and you don't use a vapor barrier, your body moisture can still freeze in the insulation, synthetic or down-, and I suppose the fog could freeze in there also. But once the sun came out the synthetic would still dry much quicker)
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 02-22-2008 at 22:09.

  6. #6
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    I guess I shouldn't say the waterproof shell and VB is impractical- it is exactly what Stephenson's Warmlight does with their bags! So, it's more than just wild theory.

    correction yet again: As I think about it, I don't think the SWL bags are actually waterproof on the outside, just highly water repellent( not sure)? But they could be with the VB on the inside. However, there is a pic of someone in the bag floating on a lake, so they must be pretty darn water resistant!
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 02-23-2008 at 10:02.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_pan View Post
    The breathable JRB Weather Shield Set is a great answer for those that have the original models.... That material is no longer available... however there is a new Weather Shield Type II that is just entering low rate initial production.... Hopefully they will be up on the JRB site soon....For those who were observant the prototype was at the Mt Rogers Winter hang out.

    FWIW, There is one of the original WS Bottoms still available.... It was a demo used just once, pristine.... Hammock Engineer was interested in it but that was a couple weeks back.... If he hasn't spoken up by COB Monday,it will become available.... PM me if you want to be considered if HE passes.

    Pan
    Pan:

    I'll take that weathershield bottom if it becomes available.

    Take-a-Knee

  8. #8
    slowhike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbonnetguy View Post
    has anyone considered trying to guy the sides tight so they can't be blown against the hammock?
    i've been working on a sock/travel pod that is held several inches away from touching the hammock or underquilt by the trekking pole i use to spread the top of my hammock.
    to make it work, i think i may need to use a trekking pole at the foot end as well.

    also, the ends below the hammock will be used for storage.
    hopefully that should keep the whole thing stretched tightly so it doesn't flap in the wind & the zippers can be used one handed.
    I too will something make and joy in it's making

  9. #9
    Senior Member neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowhike View Post
    i've been working on a sock/travel pod that is held several inches away from touching the hammock or underquilt by the trekking pole i use to spread the top of my hammock.
    to make it work, i think i may need to use a trekking pole at the foot end as well.

    also, the ends below the hammock will be used for storage.
    hopefully that should keep the whole thing stretched tightly so it doesn't flap in the wind & the zippers can be used one handed.
    my claytor jungle handles fog no problem neo
    the matrix has you

  10. #10
    Senior Member Just Jeff's Avatar
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    Somehow Claytor gets around the laws of physics and works well in all conditions. For us mere mortals still subject to reality, there's still some experimentation to be done.
    “Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall when the wise are banished from the public councils because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” ~Judge Joseph Story

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