Soft Shacle/Nacrabiner ignorance

**BillyBob58** · 06-01-2011, 16:46

Time for ignorance to check in:

What is the reason for the Nacrabiners/soft shackles again?(are they the same thing?)

I can see they replace a biner and save weight. But often, one of the reasons I use a biner- as well as convenience- is to cut down on webbing on webbing friction. Or rope on webbing friction and possible failure.

I can see the weight advantage and having the same convenience as a metal biner. But when it comes to reducing wear, how do soft shackles accomplish this? Is it just by providing a separate piece of rope/webbing that will take most of the wear, and can be replaced? Though that won't help with the longer rope from the hammock which is looped through the soft shackle.

But is wear (from rope on rope or webbing) just not an issue with WSs and Nacra/Soft shackles? Or is it that the biners never really had that much less wear to start with?

Where is the thread showing step by step construction of these items? I see the sticky for NBs, but I don't see the directions. I see a link but I don't see directions at that site yet. I know how to make WSs, is it just a shorter version of those?

Thanks for bearing with me!

**olzeke** · 06-01-2011, 17:25

You need to read through the sticky thread to find another set of pictures that detail the making part. Several people have pics that have been moved, or deleted, but far enough down are other pics. I found the ones linked in post #7 were more than adequate.

**agrajag** · 06-01-2011, 17:37

Here are the videos on YouTube that I used to make my first Nacrabiner:
Nacrabiner 1
Nacrabiner 2

Basically, you pass the rope through itself to form an adjustable loop, then tie a stopper knot on the other end. You can add a bury to make it look nicer if you want to. The soft shackle is similar and works kind of like a whoopie sling, but I've never made one since the Nacrabiner just seems easier to me.

I don't think the wear of the rope really comes into it. If you are talking about using it to pass a tree strap through around the tree, that might cause some wear, but I would say just don't bother - pass the tree strap through its own loop. I think it's more for attaching a whoopie sling to your tree strap (I prefer this to the marlinspike hitch). You would get some friction when shortening a whoopie sling but I don't think it's cause for much concern since Amsteel is pretty slippery anyway.

Look at it this way: it weighs 1/8th of your standard hammock carabiners, holds over twice the weight and only uses about 30c worth of rope to make. If you don't care about the grams, then the carabiner is easier to use, but when hiking its an obvious choice for me.

**gmcttr** · 06-01-2011, 19:59

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

Time for ignorance to check in:

What is the reason for the Nacrabiners/soft shackles again?(are they the same thing?)

I can see they replace a biner and save weight. But often, one of the reasons I use a biner- as well as convenience- is to cut down on webbing on webbing friction. Or rope on webbing friction and possible failure.

I can see the weight advantage and having the same convenience as a metal biner. But when it comes to reducing wear, how do soft shackles accomplish this? Is it just by providing a separate piece of rope/webbing that will take most of the wear, and can be replaced? Though that won't help with the longer rope from the hammock which is looped through the soft shackle.

But is wear (from rope on rope or webbing) just not an issue with WSs and Nacra/Soft shackles? Or is it that the biners never really had that much less wear to start with?...

I'm guessing weight has been the primary consideration for users of these biners and that wear is not considered. Attaching to the smaller diameter of a soft shackle/nacrabiner should derate the breaking strength of a whoopie sling (for example) compared attaching to the larger diameter of a carabiner.

I also find carabiners more convenient to clip and un-clip. Much less fiddle factor and that's without cold fingers.

I "think" the first photo is a basically a non-spliced nacrabiner while photos two and three are a soft shackle with a leash to make opening easier.

**BillyBob58** · 06-01-2011, 20:13

Thanks every one!

**stefprez** · 06-01-2011, 20:51

To comment on the wear issue, as a climber, I have to tie my rope into the belay loop on my harness every time I want to climb. I have had my harness for about 5 years, and still the wear is well within what I consider safe. Hammocking doesn't even come close to the amount of wear that is achieved in the rope on webbing belay loop that occurs in climbing, and the forces generated are significantly lower. I'd say that wear here is at most an insignificant amount. Between soft shackle and biner, its merely a weight vs. convenience question.

**Redoleary** · 06-02-2011, 04:51

I've made some soft shackles but not for load bearing work and I find them a bit fidigity. So now when I need something like that but don't have anything on hand I'm back to just tying a quick loop with a zeppelin bend and make a clove hitch 180° from the knot and stick the knot through the clove hitch and tighten. Now you've got a two legged openable loop. Seems like MacEntyre came up with these back in the day. They're quick and simple.

**gmcttr** · 06-02-2011, 08:34

Originally Posted by Redoleary

...So now when I need something like that but don't have anything on hand I'm back to just tying a quick loop with a zeppelin bend and make a clove hitch 180° from the knot and stick the not through the clove hitch and tighten...

Nice. Just knocked one out with a diamond knot and clove hitch. Me like. Now, if I can just remember it when I need it.