From Crammer they would be strait west on a hanging valley about 1000 feet higher than the creek. They overlook the south end of the canyon just opposite crammer.
I see lake Lake Kathryn straight west of lower Cramer lakes, and 2 unnamed ( on my map) lakes just north of Kathryn and about 300 or 400 ft lower than Kathryn, and about ~1000 ft above Red Fish Creek. Is that the ones?
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