Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27
  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Belleville, ON
    Posts
    658
    Images
    26
    And... to make matters worse the R value of a bag would change depending on how damp it was, or wet it was, the ambient humdity, because its absorbent, and prone to be used in a lots of different ways.

    Same with lofting time, was it measured after being compressed for a week and allowed to loft for an hour, or allowed to loft for a week?

    The variability would be phenomenal. Just as it is with "warmth" rating on bags now.
    ****************************
    So many projects, So little time....
    ****************************

  2. #22
    Alamosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bozeman MT
    Hammock
    DIY
    Tarp
    12' Winter Shelter
    Insulation
    DIY quilts
    Suspension
    CCS
    Posts
    1,050
    It would only make sense that the rating would be based on its performance in the standard test, not under all conditions. Again like the building industry, the R-Value is based on its tested performance, not what it would be when over-stuffed into a wall or wet in an attic under a leaky roof or after a baseball has been thrown through it.

    When a bag/quilt is used in the wild under varying conditions, many adjustments to the hang, tarp, clothes, etc. would need to be made. Those adjustments are at the discretion and experience of the user. But, the base insulating ability of the bag/quilt under the original test conditions haven't changed.
    We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Ben Franklin
    (known as a win-win on this forum)

  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Hammock
    90 Degree Gamma UL
    Tarp
    SLD Winter Haven
    Insulation
    Thermarest Pad
    Suspension
    Webbing
    Posts
    93
    Quote Originally Posted by xutopia View Post
    I see floor mats rated with R value and I can't understand why it isn't the same for sleeping bags and quilts.

    Anyone know why they don't use the same rating for everything that keeps you warm?
    Google is your friend...

    R values are used for building materials. Clo values are used for clothing. Why don't they use the same units? Probably because they wanted a clothing unit that was normalized against a reasonably well understood amount of clothing - 1 clo is the amount of insulation in a 3 piece business suit.

    There is a pretty straightforward conversion ( 1 R-value = 1.137 Clo value)

    The North Face has a blurb about CLO values and sleeping bags and the problems with giving out the number without any context.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Belleville, ON
    Posts
    658
    Images
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Alamosa View Post
    It would only make sense that the rating would be based on its performance in the standard test, not under all conditions. Again like the building industry, the R-Value is based on its tested performance, not what it would be when over-stuffed into a wall or wet in an attic under a leaky roof or after a baseball has been thrown through it.

    When a bag/quilt is used in the wild under varying conditions, many adjustments to the hang, tarp, clothes, etc. would need to be made. Those adjustments are at the discretion and experience of the user. But, the base insulating ability of the bag/quilt under the original test conditions haven't changed.
    Understandably, however, most insulation (in a building) leads a pretty static conditioned life, unless there is some failure in the structure.

    However the same can't be said of a sleeping bag. Even if everything is perfect, every night you sleep in it you add water, even if its not raining and you aren't sweating...

    So it really would be an academic means of comparison although it woudl provide a standardized basis for comparison. But that would be less popular with the sales folks.
    ****************************
    So many projects, So little time....
    ****************************

  5. #25
    Alamosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Bozeman MT
    Hammock
    DIY
    Tarp
    12' Winter Shelter
    Insulation
    DIY quilts
    Suspension
    CCS
    Posts
    1,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapt View Post
    ...
    So it really would be an academic means of comparison although it woudl provide a standardized basis for comparison. But that would be less popular with the sales folks.
    I think that is really the driving factor. I can imagine the conversation going something like...

    Sales Manager: All the other bags that sell for x dollars are rated at 0 degrees.
    Product Manager: I don't camp and I live in Cancun, but I think someone could sleep in this bag at 0 degrees, maybe more. They should be plenty warm.
    Sales Manager: Agreed, we will call it a -10* bag and raise the price 20%.

    How could you do that if there were standards?
    We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. - Ben Franklin
    (known as a win-win on this forum)

  6. #26

    European standard for raiting sleeping bags

    Quote Originally Posted by dejoha View Post
    Good question. I think the problem is that consumers think about bag ratings in terms of "how warm will be in this bag," or "how cold can I go" instead of "how thermally insulative is this bag?" I believe it is because the unknown variable is the occupant. Trying to standardize the warmth rating is challenging. The r-value doesn't tell you how warm it is, but a measure of heat resistance.

    A sheet of plastic or tyvek may have hi r-values, but wrapping yourself in them may not give you the same warmth as a sleeping bag. There are a lot of factors in play.
    There is a raiting system here in Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537

  7. #27
    curlymaple42's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Limerick, ME
    Hammock
    WB1.1DLXLC
    Tarp
    COGS MesaVerdeNat
    Insulation
    20WookieXL, LL0*
    Suspension
    Whoopie & Toggles
    Posts
    889
    This sort of reminds me of machinery horse power ratings. My table saw is 3hp, yet some hand tools are rated similar. None of it makes sense.

    Similarly, sleeping bags are a joke, mostly from the cheap vendors. I have a Cabelas synthetic bag that says 0. There is no comparison between that bag and my wife's 0 down bag from llbean bag!!

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    I spend more time making stuff than I do using it all!

    www.wildcherrywoodworks.com (my business)
    www.4alloutdoors.org (a friend's site I do reviews for)
    www.curlymaplechronicles.blogspot.com (my personal blog)

Similar Threads

  1. FS: Various Hammocks, Tarps, Quilts/Bags, GPS +More - 50%+ off
    By dejoha in forum [SOLD/WITHDRAWN] Items no longer available
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 06-13-2014, 11:59
  2. Newb, needs advice on sleeping bags/quilts
    By golfpro1286 in forum Top Insulation
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-15-2012, 15:18
  3. Hammock Gear 40 Rated Quilts and Tarp Review:Wordy and Pic Heavy
    By lazy river road in forum Hammock Gear
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-07-2012, 20:08
  4. Hanging Quilts/Sleeping Bags
    By Ewker in forum General Hammock Talk
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-10-2011, 10:11
  5. Sleeping Bags vs Quilts
    By Fronkey in forum General Hammock Talk
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 12-08-2010, 20:38

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •