I can wash a quilt that's been around smoke I don't care to smell.
I'd like to know that the nylon gear I get from someone else has never been around Deet. Very frequently here there is a search for immediate evidence of impact. Given the strength of immediate effects from strong concentrations, I wouldn't want my gear to be subject to long-term effects of very dilute concentrations.
Yeah, kinda like tobacco smoke and juice and health. 'cept I'm looking forward just a few years, not twenty.
Wow, 13 ticks using Picaridin? I have used both the 15 and 20 % and so far my rsults have been more than satisfactory, but normally I am using it along with Permethrin treated clothing. With that combo, I have never seen a tick or mossy even get near me that I know of. No bites from anything during the last 2+ years when using this combo.Originally Posted by weaver2469
One day I was doing yard work- often right in the thick bushes- in the back yard and did not bother with the treated clothing, just sprayed down with 15% Picaridin on exposed skin. That night, I did notice one itchy bite ( probably a mossy) on my little finger. I'm thinking I was careless and did not get that finger covered good. Or, I'm sure I was sweating to the max, so it may have just finally rubbed off of my hands.
At 1st, I was just using 5 to 10% Picaridin, because that is all I could find. It seemed to work pretty good, just didn't last very long, maybe an hour or 2 max.
Yep. I had a big bottle of the 15% in the car and sprayed it on at the trailhead. I left it in the car because I didn't want to pack it in. Hiked for about 6 hours through some pretty overgrown trails. After I set up my hammock, I spent about 1/2 and hour with the tip of a knife, picking small ticks by headlamp light. Not fun. The next day, I had a small bottle of the 20% with me in my pack and sprayed on for the way out. No ticks when I got back to the car. Might just be luck, but I am sticking with the 20%.
Oh I would also, I always do if I can find it. Although, when day hiking, I often spray with 15% just as I am leaving the truck, as I want to save my little 20% bottles for when I am really counting grams. I have not found a big aerosol spray bottle of 20% yet. And I have never had any bug problems. BUT, I almost always also have on Permethrin treated clothing, so that is not a valid comparison.
Hope you don't mind more questions, but trying to figure out- other than luck- what the big difference was.
Were the ticks attached to your skin, or crawling on your clothes?
Did you spray your skin only, or clothes only, or both?
Did you notice ticks early on, or only at the end of your 6 hour hike? Because I'm thinking even the 20% is only rated for 8 hours, and I figure even that is probably optimistic. So I'm wondering if the 15% had just run out of steam the last couple of hours and you picked up all of the ticks not long before making camp?
(sorry for the interrogationbut curiosity is driving me onward!)
Regardless, I will always use the 20% when possible.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 10-10-2011 at 19:03.
Not a problem. I was hiking in southern Ohio in July, on a really hot day. I was wearing Chaco sandals, untreated, and shorts, also not treated. This was my experiment to see if Chacos could handle backpacking weight during the summer months. I hiked from about 1:30 to about 6:30 or 7. Right when I left the car, I put on Repel brand 15% that I think I got at Walmart or Target. I sprayed liberally over my exposed legs and also on my clothing and shoes. The trail was extremely overgrown. I was walking through waist high grass and thorns for much of the time. (I won't go back to that trail unless it is winter) The trails were sunny cuts through woodlands, the perfect environment for both ticks and poison ivy. The heat was overwhelming, but I now regret the shorts and sandals experiment. Although I was sweating, I didn't cross any creeks until about 1 hour before I made camp. I didn't re-treat during the day. I agree that it might have worn off, sweated off or just been rubbed off by the constant brushing of the grasses. Still, it seemed like I was well within 8 hours of effectiveness.
When I got to camp, I checked for ticks. They were all on my shins and lower thighs. They were nymph deer ticks. I had to sit on a log and pick for quite a while. I have several moles and freckles on my shins. After a while, I thought they all were ticks.I only picked off the ones that moved. They were not dug in very much. A slight tug and they came right off. The trick was finding them. They are really small!
My hammock was treated with Permethrin and I didn't have any mosquito or tick problems during the night. (although trying to sleep in a bug netted hammock in 85 degrees is awful)
The next day, I had a very small spray bottle of Natrapel brand 20% that I got at REI. I applied it very heavily on my shins and thighs. I did not go back the exact same trail to the car, but there was similar terrain, maybe a bit less undergrowth. I checked very carefully at the car and didn't find anything, although it was in my head now and I "felt" imaginary ones for the entire drive home.
I realize that this is one anecdotal episode and not very scientific, but it is convincing enough for me. 20% all the way. If they ever come up with 30%, I will probably buy that. I hate ticks.
Thanks for the details, as disgusting as they are!Not a problem. I was hiking in southern Ohio in July, on a really hot day. I was wearing Chaco sandals, untreated, and shorts, also not treated. This was my experiment to see if Chacos could handle backpacking weight during the summer months. I hiked from about 1:30 to about 6:30 or 7. Right when I left the car, I put on Repel brand 15% that I think I got at Walmart or Target. I sprayed liberally over my exposed legs and also on my clothing and shoes. The trail was extremely overgrown. I was walking through waist high grass and thorns for much of the time. (I won't go back to that trail unless it is winter) The trails were sunny cuts through woodlands, the perfect environment for both ticks and poison ivy. The heat was overwhelming, but I now regret the shorts and sandals experiment. Although I was sweating, I didn't cross any creeks until about 1 hour before I made camp. I didn't re-treat during the day. I agree that it might have worn off, sweated off or just been rubbed off by the constant brushing of the grasses. Still, it seemed like I was well within 8 hours of effectiveness.
When I got to camp, I checked for ticks. They were all on my shins and lower thighs. They were nymph deer ticks. I had to sit on a log and pick for quite a while. I have several moles and freckles on my shins. After a while, I thought they all were ticks.
My hammock was treated with Permethrin and I didn't have any mosquito or tick problems during the night. (although trying to sleep in a bug netted hammock in 85 degrees is awful)
The next day, I had a very small spray bottle of Natrapel brand 20% that I got at REI. I applied it very heavily on my shins and thighs. I did not go back the exact same trail to the car, but there was similar terrain, maybe a bit less undergrowth. I checked very carefully at the car and didn't find anything, although it was in my head now and I "felt" imaginary ones for the entire drive home.
I realize that this is one anecdotal episode and not very scientific, but it is convincing enough for me. 20% all the way. If they ever come up with 30%, I will probably buy that. I hate ticks.
And I am the same about feeling the imaginary ones after I have found one. And I agree that a net in all but cool temps can be very unpleasant. I don't get out much overnight when it is very warm. If I did I would probably try to get by without a net like I did a month ago in the ID Sawtooths and last October in the Sipsey. I got buy with no bites just using 20% Picaridin and Permethrin treated clothing. But I have discovered something about myself: if it is cool enough to stand it, I go with the net now, along with treated clothing and maybe hammock. It is a mental thing, a tiny suspicion that the Picaridin will wear off before I get up. So last week in the Sipsey, I took the removable net on my JRB. I definitely slept more relaxed! ( it was also 38F by dawn, so no problems being too hot).
I have sprayed myself with 100% Deet sat in the 100º+ sun covered in sweat then added more all over and then got in my hammock. Still holding strong but I from now on will NEVER use Deet heavy repellent again. 20% is going to be my new max.
Every time I hang in a tree I get a coconut to the head.....stupid coconuts
Some data about picaridin (called icaridin outside U.S.) from the Health Canada report that recommends permitting its sale in Canada indicates it is safe fro your hammock, but not your leather or hair dye!
link: http://publications.gc.ca/collection...011-10-eng.pdf
Data were provided to support non-safety adverse effects claims for the 10% icaridin products.
They demonstrated that treatment with 10% icaridin did not cause any adverse effects to
garments made of polyester, polyester/rayon/spandex blend, nylon/lycra/spandex blend,
cotton/nylon blend and 100% cotton. No adverse effects were observed on costume jewellery
and plexiglass. Adverse effects were observed on leather, lacquered wood and hair dyes
(bleeding of colour was observed).
DEET eats through synthetics.
However, it doesn't hurt cotton. I have heard its a wise decision ti spray a bandana and tie it around your neck. High concentration deet should keep the bugs away from your face.
And I thoght they were are here where I livedhills, fields, and woods are filled with Ticks and Chiggers
I am still 18 but with 52 years of experience !
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