Down Parka with Less UQ and Shorter TQ

[wisenber]

Might work! May some arctic blasts soon be upon you so that you can test these theories out. I want to see if you incorporate VB clothing into this system and what it does for you.

So your thinking PeaPod, WM pants and FF Parka, and maybe VB clothing? This is for zero or a bit colder? Are you thinking of anything extra for the bottom warmth(back,butt,legs,feet)?

Maybe a leg or possible butt pad, or pad down in the pod? Won't you have a pad with you anyway?

I think pod, pants, parka and pad would do quite well. I'm pretty sure that the VB stuff provides greater warmth, but I'd be hard pressed to quantify it. I know last winter I used a fractional UQ with just my NS in conjunction with my VB layers in Slickrock. The forecast called for lows around 5-10 F. I made it until about 4:30 in the morning when I had to bale due to being cold. After hiking 7 miles in 3-4 foot deep snow back to my car, I heard on the radio that Bryson City (2500 feet lower than my campsite) was minus 14 F! The insulation I had was only rated to 20F!

I do take a pad in the winter regardless of any other kit as I still need a place to sit and kneel. My JRB 26X40 handles that well while providing me a 15 degree insurance policy.

My theory still is that down even when compressed will provide more insulation than nothing. That parka has 1.5" baffles, so I'm hoping it will provide more insulation than a 100 wt fleece even when compressed.
I also found that the pants compression is not as big of a problem as I anticipated. If my legs are straight, the whole bottom is compressed but the sides and top still loft. If I bend my knees, only the area under my butt is compressed. At Roan Mountain, I actually took the down pants and placed them between the pod and my hammock and I stayed warm underneath when it was right around 0 that night.

Better be careful, this thread might evolve into another 'ode to pod' posting. That wasn't what the OP was wanting to cover. Oh wait, I'm the OP!

[BillyBob58]

I think pod, pants, parka and pad would do quite well. I'm pretty sure that the VB stuff provides greater warmth, but I'd be hard pressed to quantify it. I know last winter I used a fractional UQ with just my NS in conjunction with my VB layers in Slickrock. The forecast called for lows around 5-10 F. I made it until about 4:30 in the morning when I had to bale due to being cold. After hiking 7 miles in 3-4 foot deep snow back to my car, I heard on the radio that Bryson City (2500 feet lower than my campsite) was minus 14 F! The insulation I had was only rated to 20F!

Yes, I well remember that. I found it amazing. I may get some of that Cabela's down underwear and/or Warmlite fuzzy stuff VB clothing for Christmas. I have used partial VBs for a long time ( space blankets in SuperShelers and Pods and VB socks), but it is time to experiment with the real deal. How about VB clothing under that down underwear? Underneath the FF Parka. Inside the pod. Sounds kind of warm.

I do take a pad in the winter regardless of any other kit as I still need a place to sit and kneel. My JRB 26X40 handles that well while providing me a 15 degree insurance policy.

That's what I figured. Keep in mind my friend who goes on my western trips with me and, while I am using my 20F pod, he uses various pads inside his 55F rated PeaPod, underneath his hammock. But using it into the 20s so far, and claims to be totally warm. So, if you have a pad with you anyway, then...........

My theory still is that down even when compressed will provide more insulation than nothing. That parka has 1.5" baffles, so I'm hoping it will provide more insulation than a 100 wt fleece even when compressed.
I also found that the pants compression is not as big of a problem as I anticipated. If my legs are straight, the whole bottom is compressed but the sides and top still loft. If I bend my knees, only the area under my butt is compressed. At Roan Mountain, I actually took the down pants and placed them between the pod and my hammock and I stayed warm underneath when it was right around 0 that night.

That is another fantastic technique with a pod that I have played with a lot. Just sticking whatever spare insulation I have between me and the pod. It is easy to end up with 4 to 6" total loft, or more. You better believe that is warm!

Better be careful, this thread might evolve into another 'ode to pod' posting. That wasn't what the OP was wanting to cover. Oh wait, I'm the OP!

Well thank goodness you are! There does tend to be a lot of "ode to pod" around here, considering how few people use that approach. But, it is a new thought based on this thread, a variation so to speak: Using the FF Parka rather than a TQ, but with the pod rather than half bag and light UQ. I think the pod will be warmer, but will it be as light?

[wisenber]

Yes, I well remember that. I found it amazing. I may get some of that Cabela's down underwear and/or Warmlite fuzzy stuff VB clothing for Christmas. I have used partial VBs for a long time ( space blankets in SuperShelers and Pods and VB socks), but it is time to experiment with the real deal. How about VB clothing under that down underwear? Underneath the FF Parka. Inside the pod. Sounds kind of warm.

That's what I figured. Keep in mind my friend who goes on my western trips with me and, while I am using my 20F pod, he uses various pads inside his 55F rated PeaPod, underneath his hammock. But using it into the 20s so far, and claims to be totally warm. So, if you have a pad with you anyway, then...........


That is another fantastic technique with a pod that I have played with a lot. Just sticking whatever spare insulation I have between me and the pod. It is easy to end up with 4 to 6" total loft, or more. You better believe that is warm!


Well thank goodness you are! There does tend to be a lot of "ode to pod" around here, considering how few people use that approach. But, it is a new thought based on this thread, a variation so to speak: Using the FF Parka rather than a TQ, but with the pod rather than half bag and light UQ. I think the pod will be warmer, but will it be as light?

The "fuzzy stuff" shirt works great and does hold in a good deal of warmth. I just use some lightweight rainpants for the VB pants and they seem to work well enough. The Warmlite socks work ok, but one might argue that a couple of bread bags would do just as well. Moving from a VB bag or blanket to VB clothing really lets you use your other clothing on top. I'm glad that I tried it out!

The Cabelas down looks interesting, but at 550 fill, I wonder if just getting some M65 military liner would not offer the same if not more in terms of less compressible insulating layers.

The whole "giant down garment" concept will have pretty limited application. If it works, it'll probably be in those rare times that it stays below 10 F. The VB stuff comes in handy around 20 F and below, so it will have a greater application.

[spaceweaseal]

I don't like to sleep in a jacket. I have used a down jacket as a TQ but I only drap it over me..I have used a goretex parka in my hammock but I flip it over and use the hood as a foot box. Even on the ground I can't use mummy bags because I feel too restricted..

[adkphoto]

I think you're onto something. For years I wondered why I carried such heavy sleeping gear AND clothes that matched the expected temperatures. So, recently, I started bringing lighter sleeping gear and supplementing it with the clothes that I was wearing or carrying. Most of the time I can get away with draping excess clothes over the top of my sleeping bag when needed. Occasionally I'll wear it in the sleeping bag. I've been able to reduce my pack weight significantly using this approach.

I have Feathered Friends pants and jacket and they are outstanding. On a winter backpacking trip, one of our party was arriving after dark, so I put on my FF gear and waited for him at a trail junction to guide him to our camp. I sat in a snow bank and fell asleep toasty warm at about 8°F. I've used it down to -30°F. Without it, I would have been a popsicle.

Peace,
David

[MedicineMan]

Glad this thread didn't die.
I'm been thinking about my strategy for Roan this year.
So far I intend to use a:
Traveler
Under me-Speer Snugfit and around the Snugfit a LeighLo Winter UQ
One me- Nunatak down pants MountainHardwear Sub Zero Parka
Exped down socks over wool socks Nunatek down balaclava
Black Rock down mits
On top of me-Warbonnet Winter Mamba

Around the hammock: MacIx Hammock Sock

Since I'm going retro with an external frame pack I will carry a THICK ccf pad
for between the Traveler layers.

Also since going retro I can put the stainless steel nalgene on top of the Otimus 99r and heat it up before putting it in the waterproof drybag and extra sock.

I do hope to get some temps in the teen between now and then to give it a test.

[Owl]

OK, so I'm kinda of a different opinion.

For me, I got into the habit of removing my clothing before I climbed into my sleeping bag.

I've found that if I wear all my cold weather gear into my sleeping bag...when I climb out in the morning, I feel a LOT colder for a good while because I'm now wearing less insulation than I was in the bag, with my coat.

For myself, I make sure I've got sufficient, seperate insulation for waking activities and for sleeping.

When I climb out of the bag in the morning, I get a momentary chill, but that quickly goes away when I put my outer gear on...replacing the sleeping bag in effect.

If I sleep in it, and then climb out...I feel the cold much more.

[wisenber]

OK, so I'm kinda of a different opinion.

For me, I got into the habit of removing my clothing before I climbed into my sleeping bag.

I've found that if I wear all my cold weather gear into my sleeping bag...when I climb out in the morning, I feel a LOT colder for a good while because I'm now wearing less insulation than I was in the bag, with my coat.

For myself, I make sure I've got sufficient, seperate insulation for waking activities and for sleeping.

When I climb out of the bag in the morning, I get a momentary chill, but that quickly goes away when I put my outer gear on...replacing the sleeping bag in effect.

If I sleep in it, and then climb out...I feel the cold much more.

That is why I was looking at carrying less top insulation. The camp clothing would be close enough to allow sleeping, and an added smaller TQ would provide the difference. Sleeping gear not only has to overcome the temperature, but also the lower sleeping metabolism. As soon as you get up and move much, the smaller TQ wouldn't be needed to overcome the lower metabolism.

[wisenber]

Glad this thread didn't die.
I'm been thinking about my strategy for Roan this year.
So far I intend to use a:
Traveler
Under me-Speer Snugfit and around the Snugfit a LeighLo Winter UQ
One me- Nunatak down pants MountainHardwear Sub Zero Parka
Exped down socks over wool socks Nunatek down balaclava
Black Rock down mits
On top of me-Warbonnet Winter Mamba

Around the hammock: MacIx Hammock Sock

Since I'm going retro with an external frame pack I will carry a THICK ccf pad
for between the Traveler layers.

Also since going retro I can put the stainless steel nalgene on top of the Otimus 99r and heat it up before putting it in the waterproof drybag and extra sock.

I do hope to get some temps in the teen between now and then to give it a test.

You may need to add some extra shock-cord to the Leighlo if it is going under the Snugfit, or it it may just serve to compress the Snugfit.

[Captn]

I made a synthetic quilt once upon a time that was two layers from the bellybutton down, one layer up to the shoulders .... Worn with a hooded parka it was quite a good system ... Wore it out over several seasons, however.

A couple of thoughts on cold weather .... I would think twice about having ALL my insulation as down. A little bit of strategic synthetic can be a really good thing if the SHTF. It's happened to me several times at altitude .... And I was very fortunate to have some synthetic insulation in the mix.