Insultex Confusion

[the_lorax]

So to add more to the IX circus....

many comments from people who have it, say that it looks identical to the foam used to pack items, or flooring underlay, sandwiched between two layers of thin fabric (scrim).

So has anyone tried sewing LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) packing foam, or polyfoam underlay for flooring? Roberts Unison 2 in 1 underlayment is sold at Home Depot in a 48 inch wide x 300 " roll for $24. This foam is 3/32 (2.38 mm) thick. If several layers are sandwiched with an air gap between them (say in an underquilt) the R value would be much higher. A 2 cm thick layer would give an R value of at least 2.3.
LDPE foam layers are thin and flexible and could likely be used much like IX.

Sound Barrier Plus is a 1/16 foam flooring underlay that gives a much higher R value of 1.6 for this thin layer, which looks promising. If this is accurate a 6mm layer could be R 6!

What do you guys think?

Well if you're going to open up the alternatives issue, MacEntyre posted this morning that "PPEF replaces Insultex for items made by MacEntyre" Not sure how the products you suggest compare to the 1/32" Perforated PolyEthylene Foam (PPEF) he's got but it would be interesting to find out - especially if it's both easier to get and cheaper.

[MacEntyre]

LDPE foam layers are thin and flexible and could likely be used much like IX.

You have cornered the animal! Insultex is a 1/32" PE Foam layer between two layers of polypropylene scrim, all quilted together.

I switched to Perforated PE Foam because it costs less and works just the same as Insultex when used between two layers of nylon. It's perforated so that air will escape when you stuff it. Essentially, we replace the polypopylene scrim with nylon. It is the PE Foam that provides the insulation.

- MacEntyre

[BillyBob58]

Back when I 1st got an IX product, I did some freezer experiments, which were probably not very scientific. I tried to control variables as much as possible. My results with a single layer of IX were consistent, not so much with added layers. With the single layer, I would leave two bottles of water (1 liter each) in the freezer until the one not covered with IX mostly froze(still some liquid left). This would take a while, maybe an hour or two.

Assuming the temp of the MOSTLY frozen water bottle was about 32F ( I could only measure the still liquid part), the IX insulated(loosely wrapped) and completely unfrozen bottle was consistently 16*F warmer. Probably results for the IX would have been a little better if I had CCF under the bottle, because IX under the bottle was compressed and no air space at all. So maybe this is worse case. Things got trickier trying two layers of IX, and I did not get much difference, but I think that was due to some error on my part, and I was unwilling to give any more time to checking this out.

So, if this test was valid, at least 16F for 1 layer. 70-16= 54. If all is perfect and additive, 3x16= 48. 70 - 48= 22F. Or 75-48=27F. Maybe.

TeeDee's results would indicate more like 19-21* per layer.

Now in the field, with 2 layers plus a 3rd torso layer, I have not yet approached either TeeDee's results or my theoretical extrapolation from my consistent 1 layer freezer test results. This is where fit comes in. I was always a little cold any where near the 30s, but I was getting steadily better results as I pulled things tighter, so more testing is needed. Still, I thought it was impressive for the weight.

OTOH, I nearly roasted one night in the 30s(high 20s? need to look it up) when I suspended this IX quilt under me in a PeaPod. No TQ, clothing only.

[bluefields181]

wait ix is just thin foam? What's next? No Santa!? So anyway, i just so happen to have a roll of thin foam in the back of my car. Its got a glossy smooth underside and a soft matt top. Not sure What its made out of, but its light weight for sure.

[JohnSawyer]

wait ix is just thin foam? What's next? No Santa!? So anyway, i just so happen to have a roll of thin foam in the back of my car. Its got a glossy smooth underside and a soft matt top. Not sure What its made out of, but its light weight for sure.

This is different. It's White, thin, and fragile. (which is why it's quilted to a poly scrim) I've seen the same foam used extensively to pack electronics, furniture, etc.. Its often welded to form waterproof bags . . .

The floor underlayment is the same material, but much thicker at about .1". (doesn't work well as it's too stiff)

[scum]

For what its worth, I have a diy 3 layer IX UQ using poncho liner a my outer shell. I've taken it into the20s several times and been comfy. I've dipped into the teens a couple times and was OK. Ive been in single digits once and struggled with CBS but found out later I had botched my suspension so was not setup right. In my experience, ix is VERY picky about how its suspended under you. You absolutely must not have air gaps. I added draft collars at the ends to help and that made a huge difference.

I've also been in 30 degree temps and been chilled with cbs because I couldn't quite get it right. I've worked out most of the quirks and fiddle factor with it but I still will bring a ccf pad to supplement just in case for insurance. With the pad, the ix is solid and I would be confident into the teens. Still waiting to try out single digits again...

[scum]

I should point out also, I sleep in under armour style long Johns, a hot water bottle or a couple hand warmers, wool socks, wool wristies and a zero degree sleeping bag as a top quilt. sometimes ill add a hoodie swaeatshirt.

[bluefields181]

i'm going to have to try it out. If nothijg else, as a add on insulation for cold cold nigjts.

[TinCanFury]

So if I understand this correctly, IX/PPEF requires a form of "loft" to steal the terminology from the down world, in order to work at its best?

ie: TiredFeet mentioned it needs to "fold back and forth", which I'm imagining looks like corrugated cardboard?

Could this gap be another material like Climashield or Primaloft?

[MacEntyre]

So if I understand this correctly, IX/PPEF requires a form of "loft" ...?

Yes. More specifically, it does not like to be compressed. It works best when it is held so lightly against the hammock that there is a tiny gap, perhaps only 1/16". We make sure that gap exists by building in longitudinal pleats.

Could this gap be another material like Climashield or Primaloft?

Certainly! That's why PEF works so well as a supplement.