And for the record, what are you guys doing that I"m not. I have the SS and I used the space blanket and the pad and I FROZE MY *** OFF!!! What were you using for a TQ?
And, on a different note, how do you restuff your space blanket?
And for the record, what are you guys doing that I"m not. I have the SS and I used the space blanket and the pad and I FROZE MY *** OFF!!! What were you using for a TQ?
And, on a different note, how do you restuff your space blanket?
What were you using on top? Were you cold everywhere, on top, or only on your back side? I have used everything from my Polarguard sleeping bags ( either inside as a mummy bag or as a quilt) to my down 20F TQ to very light weight clothing only at ~48F.Originally Posted by froggfeathers
What temp did you freeze at, and were you dry or wet from condensation? I am always mystified when I read a post like this, as i do occasionally. Some people are just never able to get good results from the HHSS, while there is now a good sized group of us who do just fine, no problems. In fact, if wind and smaller tarps/ poor tarp pitch/unsheltered sites are a problem, sometimes the wind proof UC is a huge advantage.
You used the space blanket, so I don't know what to suggest. Because if correctly installed per HH directions, there is not much to be done. It either works or it doesn't, not much to adjust. Are you sure it is installed correctly? what kind of space blanket are you using, is it for sure a vapor barrier? ( I like the 2.5 oz Heetsheets or even the cheep Walmart is fine. You don't want anything heavy, it might cause a gap) Until you figure it out or buy an UQ, do you have any dry clothing that you do not sleep in? Place light items ( like socks, balaclava etc) on the pad, or heavier items ( like fleece/PG/down jackets, pants, dry rain gear, anything you are not sleeping in) down into the UC under the pad. But EVERYTHING under the space blanket or vapor barrier. You can get a HUGE boost from doing this. Just don't put enough heavy stuff so that it is heavy enough to overwhelm the elastics in the UC and cause a gap. You want everything to be in contact with your pad or back. No gaps! But with a fleece jacket and a down vest- for ex - covering upper back to butt- this is usually no problem. Probably, a light and very flexible torso pad will also help down in the UC, but it is trickier. Try some of that and let us know if you have any luck. But really, if the system is working for you like it does for quite a few HHSS users, you should be OK with just the one pad and sb to the low 40s or low 30s or maybe even high 20s(people vary greatly with any system), without any other tricks. Still, however it works for you, it is easy to get a HUGE boost with the above tricks. I have many times. Good luck!
Once I get all that stuff installed, it stays on the hammock. I take the entire HHSS with pad/SB ( and maybe even over cover and TQ) and stuff it into a large stuff sack or my pack. It does not come off until hot weather. Or, sometimes I take the pad and space blanket off, roll the pad up with sb inside, and stuff all of that in a separate dry bag. I have done this then using snake skins for the rest of the hammock and SS, and another set of skins for the tarp. either way works great.And, on a different note, how do you restuff your space blanket?
I suspect one reason for my sucess with the HHSS is because I generally use a synthetic sleeping bag, and not a TQ.
I personally prefer sleeping IN a sleeping bag unless the weather is just too warm. I only zip it up in VERY cold weather (for example, the last trip I went on was 22*F with 20-30 mph gusts, and I used a sleeping bag, fleece liner, and PL but didn't zip any of it up).
I may lose some insulative value by compressing my bag underneath me, but since it's synthetic maybe not as much...and then it's still augmented by the HHSS pad and SB.
Also note...I only start using the space blanket in the 20s and 30s. 40's and above I've not used it, and sufferend no real issue with condensation.
I also do NOT sleep in my 'daytime' clothes, that could contain moisture. On the trip I mentioned above, I slept in a thin winter underlayer, a thicker underlayer over that, and a pair of wool socks, with a wool buff on my head. No down involved anywhere, and no coat either.
I'm not sure why the HHSS seems to work well for me. I've figured if I 'just' slept on it with a TQ, I might have less success. Just don't care to sleep that way...in the sleeping bag is how I've done it for years, and it's just too comfortable for me to change.
Okay. I am CLEARLY doing this whole thing wrong. So, I am going to try to fix myself. Please don't read this as argumentative. It isn't. I love love love my hammock and I want to be able to use it more than what I do now. And I always mess up the quote thing, so I will just answer the questions in order.
First, I sleep cold. I have quality 15 degree bags that, in a tent, barely do the job on a 30 degree night, and I mean barely. However, I was freezing my tail off on a 40 degree night in my hammock, so I still think I'm just doing it wrong.
Here is what I have tried:
a) Sleeping in a big agness 15 degree bag (they don't have any loft on the underside) both with the big agness air pad under the bag inside the hammock and without the air pad under the bag both the the SS and both with and without the foam pad and the space blanket under me outside of the hammock
b) Sleeping in a cat's meow with just the SS and the foam SS pad and the space blanket under me outside of the hammock and
c) Sleeping in a cat's meow with a foam pad inside the hammock and the SS and space blanket outside the hammock (that was a fiasco)
The one time I wasn't cold, I was car camping and I stole an extra sleeping bag and slept with one bag under me inside the hammock and one over me inside the hammock and nothing in the SS except just that it was there because I didn't remove it, but no space blanket. And that was in September in the cascades, so it wasn't very cold. And that is hardly practical when backpacking.
I am getting cold all over, but mostly it starts on my backside. In fact, when I made a solid attempt watching the video and everything up on the Mt. on a
degree night, I was mostly sure my whole hammock had to be wet because I was freezing. It wasn't, it was just super cold.
At what temp do I get cold? I hate to sound like a whiner, but it seems like I start to get cold around 40 degrees. Now, keep in mind, I am usually coming out of 100+ degree weather because I live in Las Vegas, so my blood is nice and thin. That was just me trying to save face, but it felt good.
And I think I am usually dry. I wasn't in the cascades, but are you ever in the cascades? And I don't know what kind of space blanket I am using. I will have to go check it out.
Okay, now about this gap. Are you telling me that the space blanket is supposed to be basically touching me with only the hammock between me and it? If that's the case, I can promise you it isn't. First off, the pad is a pain in the rear and it slides all over the damned place and it's like wrestling a wet cat with one hand trying to get it positioned when inside the hammock. And, the space blanket wants to slide around as well and then the two of them get together and mutiny and decide to go over to someone eles's camp. Okay, maybe not that last part, but they do move around and there is probably a solid 4 inches, maybe more, between my back side and the center of the pad/space blanket. I have never tried to put extra stuff under the pad to move it closer to my body, but I will hang my set-up outside this weekend and give it a go. I usually stuff extra bags and things in one bag that is attached to the carabiner of the hammock.
Are you guys using that foam cell pad thing or the new bubble pad? Does it matter??
Okay, now about packing it all up. If I take the pad out (and I have not thought to leave the SB in doh!) and the UC on and the regular tarp on, I can get everything inside of the snake skins. However, if I have my hex tarp, it's no game. Are there larger snake skins for that?
I can't imagine how cool it would be to sleep in just the hammock and the SS without having to carry a sleeping bag. Very cool.
And thanks in advance for the help. I don't know if it matters, but I have a side entry and I can't figure out which side is the head and which is the foot, so maybe I am sleeping in it backwards too
Last edited by froggfeathers; 03-02-2012 at 21:27.
I also think you would have less success, but not just with the HHSS, but all UQs. Because, with a synthetic bag, you no doubt pick up at least a few backside degrees - maybe a good number of degrees - being inside a bag. Do to less compression. And then, down or synthetic, just being inside a bag is warmer for me- fewer drafts. Though some do say they pick up some extra warmth quilt style do to the "accordion" effect on top of having a wide bag crumpled up on top of you in a relatively narrow hammock. Still, when I have been cold on top, I always get a lot warmer on top when I get inside the bag, and I often feel warmer on the bottom as well.
No problem Bro! No argumentative attitude is noted for you, just questions and wanting to get er done. And you ain't the 1st one to struggle being cold in a hammock with SS, or with quilts for that matter. We are here for you!
OK, right off the bat we are getting some where. This is a sign!First, I sleep cold. I have quality 15 degree bags that, in a tent, barely do the job on a 30 degree night, and I mean barely.
Yep, got to find the villain!However, I was freezing my tail off on a 40 degree night in my hammock, so I still think I'm just doing it wrong.
Any of those pad/HHSS combos would have kept me toasty on bottom to the teens or maybe zero. ( well, don't know about the Big Agnes air pad: is that insulated?) And that is assuming I could stay on the pads. In fact, a ccf pad by itself- held in place some how (SPE, dbl layer hammock) would probably get me at least to 30. Using two summer pads in an SPE ( Segmented Pad Extender) kept me TOASTY on bottom at ~ 18F.Here is what I have tried:
a) Sleeping in a big agness 15 degree bag (they don't have any loft on the underside) both with the big agness air pad under the bag inside the hammock and without the air pad under the bag both the the SS and both with and without the foam pad and the space blanket under me outside of the hammock
b) Sleeping in a cat's meow with just the SS and the foam SS pad and the space blanket under me outside of the hammock and
c) Sleeping in a cat's meow with a foam pad inside the hammock and the SS and space blanket outside the hammock (that was a fiasco)
OK, again, maybe this is giving us a clue. Because that bag under you no doubt compressed a lot( and a huge amount if it was a down bag) And no space blanket in the HH probably cost you at least 15F worth of insulation. And Yet you were warm enough, though not very cold. That same bag uncompressed under your HH pad ( assuming no gaps caused by the weight) would probably have bought you another 30 to 50F of insulation.The one time I wasn't cold, I was car camping and I stole an extra sleeping bag and slept with one bag under me inside the hammock and one over me inside the hammock and nothing in the SS except just that it was there because I didn't remove it, but no space blanket. And that was in September in the cascades, so it wasn't very cold. And that is hardly practical when backpacking.
Watching THE video? The HH instruction video, or just some random unrelated video? OK, the good news is you were not wet, right? Because that is usually the down fall of most folks when the HHSS does not work for them. Bad news is you were still cold and it started on your back.I am getting cold all over, but mostly it starts on my backside. In fact, when I made a solid attempt watching the video and everything up on the Mt. on a
degree night, I was mostly sure my whole hammock had to be wet because I was freezing. It wasn't, it was just super cold.
How about on the ground? Do you get cold about 40 on the ground? You may just be a super cold sleeper. But then again, if you can get the HHSS- with just the 1 pad and SB to 40, then you are not all that far off. I can do better than that, but only about 30. For some folks 40 in a SS is about it without augmenting. But it is EASY to augment!At what temp do I get cold? I hate to sound like a whiner, but it seems like I start to get cold around 40 degrees. Now, keep in mind, I am usually coming out of 100+ degree weather because I live in Las Vegas, so my blood is nice and thin. That was just me trying to save face, but it felt good.
I have used my HHSS for a week in the rain forest of Olympia National Park, very near the ocean, warm and toasty with lows in the 40s, very humid. Never felt a hint of cold on my back. If in doubt on the SB, just get a Walmart $2, 2 oz emergency mylar space blanket. Make sure whatever you use does not allow vapor to pass ( no breathable holes) and is NOT heavy. You want light as possible.And I think I am usually dry. I wasn't in the cascades, but are you ever in the cascades? And I don't know what kind of space blanket I am using. I will have to go check it out.
Absolutely, 100% Shu 'nuff. Your back in contact with your hammoc, your space blanket in contact with your back, your HH OCF pad in contact with the other side of your sb! This must happen if there is any hope of it working. For one thing, the sb must be against your back to keep it warm to avoid condensation! Body vapor hitting a cold surface will condense, get in your insulation and freeze you!Okay, now about this gap. Are you telling me that the space blanket is supposed to be basically touching me with only the hammock between me and it?
Also, even tiny gaps are the kiss of death for any UQ(except maybe a PeaPod) because cold air will rush in to the low point and fill the gap. You can have 4" of zero rated 900FP down under your back, but if you have a 1/4" gap between your back and that down, and cold air sinks to fill that space, you can freeze at 40.
Are you referring to the HHSS OCF pad and sb, or a separate pad inside the hammock? Because the HH pad and sb should never move! That pad is tied into position by the HH side guy out lines, and also at the foot and head end by the elastic suspension. Is your hammock bottom entry or zip model? Either way, it should stay mostly in place. But with a zip model, if needed just pull everything under you, and it should stay. Mine never moves. In fact, it is hard to move it if the hammock side cords are through the pad loops. And it is sort of grippy, gripping my hammock. I am not sure what is going on, wish I was there to see what is happening.If that's the case, I can promise you it isn't. First off, the pad is a pain in the rear and it slides all over the damned place and it's like wrestling a wet cat with one hand trying to get it positioned when inside the hammock. And, the space blanket wants to slide around as well and then the two of them get together and mutiny and decide to go over to someone eles's camp.
OK, we have a winner, we have our answer! I am surprised you have not woke up dead from hypothermia. I would be cold with that at 60F. There is something major wrong with this set up!Okay, maybe not that last part, but they do move around and there is probably a solid 4 inches, maybe more, between my back side and the center of the pad/space blanket.
It won't help you at all if you don't get rid of that gap. Whatever is under you must be snug against your back. No wonder you are freezing!I have never tried to put extra stuff under the pad to move it closer to my body, but I will hang my set-up outside this weekend and give it a go. I usually stuff extra bags and things in one bag that is attached to the carabiner of the hammock.
The OCF pad that comes with the HHSS, not the bubble pad. But whichever must be snug against your back.Are you guys using that foam cell pad thing or the new bubble pad? Does it matter??
Don't know what size you have, but HH did make 3 different sizes once. But most folks like to put the tarp in separate skins.Okay, now about packing it all up. If I take the pad out (and I have not thought to leave the SB in doh!) and the UC on and the regular tarp on, I can get everything inside of the snake skins. However, if I have my hex tarp, it's no game. Are there larger snake skins for that?
Well, that won't happen unless it is not very cold, or unless you have some really warm clothing. But I have done it with light weight clothing in the high 40s. With the HHSS top cover, I think I could go a lot colder, 10 or 15 colder.I can't imagine how cool it would be to sleep in just the hammock and the SS without having to carry a sleeping bag. Very cool.
You are welcome,And thanks in advance for the help. I don't know if it matters, but I have a side entry and I can't figure out which side is the head and which is the foot, so maybe I am sleeping in it backwards too
and it is also easy to get the SS on upside down or backwards until you know what is going on. If you can figure out which end is which, it will be easier with a side zip- you can just feel under you to make sure there are no gaps and everything is in place. Do you have the old style HHSS where you have to snake the hammock ropes through the UC? Or the new kind where you wrap it around the already hanging hammock?
Have you watched this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=b6lpgSy0N3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tvz6dwox0zA
http://hennessyhammock.com/media/C38/#content
If you have survived with a 4" gap under you, you just need to get it on right and throw a jacket or super light quilt under the OCF pad, and then make sure it is tight enough to be snug against your back, just contacting your back. That should make 40*F difference compared to the gap system you have now.
Also, if having trouble with the sb staying put, just put a stitch through sb and OCF pad in each corner, leaving enough slack in your sb.
Billybob is DEFINTELY on the right track here.
The way it works for me is that I install the whole thing using the following steps:
1. Hang hammock as usual.
2. Attach HHSS Undercover to the hammock as described in the videos you can find on HH's website and youtube.
3. Attach the OCF foam pad per same videos. Note: This should be relatively snug to your hammock...you can adjust it by making knots in the cordage that attaches it to the mitten hooks. If it's too loose, then the whole thing could hang too far away from your back to do any good.
4. Unfold and place the space blanket on top of the pad. I typically will fold the sides over and under the pad a little bit, to hold it in place.
5. Make sure everything pretty much stays in place when you get in/out of the hammock.
As far as storage...I do it like Billybob mentioned above as well. During the cool months, I store the HHSS Undercover and space blanket in the skins still attached to the hammock. I just pull out the pad and roll it up to transport out.
I don't think it'll fit well in the same skins along with the hex tarp. It's usually a good idea to store your tarp seperately...and easier to set it up by itself and keep your hammock/gear dry while you set that up AFTER the tarp is in place on it's own.
Hope this helps!
You are using the open cell foam underpad, correct? Are you suspending it underneath the hammock, but above the undercover, using the 4 elastics? It should be snug up against the bottom of the hammock. I've forgotten one or more of the attachments once or twice, and it makes for a COLD night since there is an air gap between the hammock bottom and the underpad.
~
"Home is where I hang my food bag."
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Allen Freeman
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I've taken the HH bubble pad to around freezing. It now suggests 40F. I had some cool spots around my shoulder all night long. Ends up there a portion that projects out about four inches that should have been under my shoulder all night, but had flipped under itself in a crease in the manner in which I stored it at the time. I now keep it unrolled up in the rafters of my storage room.when I got my HH, these were not available.
I am curious now.
here I found:
Quote:
New and improved UnderCover can be installed or removed without taking down the hammock. Waterproof, windproof SilNylon UnderCover creates a trapped airspace. Contoured open cell foam pad attaches between the layers. Use an emergency space blanket on top of UnderPad. System includes UnderCover and UnderPad. OverCover is a separate accessory. Note: Radiant Bubble Pad is not part of this system.
http://hennessyhammock.com/catalog/insulation/
and I see the SuperSystem 4 season only comes with and over cover and and undercover....but no underpads. It also stresses: Use an emergency space blanket on top of UnderPad. System includes UnderCover and UnderPad. OverCover is a separate accessory. Note: Radiant Bubble Pad is not part of this system.
interesting....
I wish they had tried and true test results and in which combinations. thank you Zorp for your feedback
I bought an Incubator from Adam shortly thereafter and have only used it in combination with that on one potentially super cool night. Probably overkill, but I was warm! This probably doesn't answer any questions with the SS, but the bubble pad isn't a bad piece of gear.
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Healthy, free, the world before me,
The long brown path before me, leading wherever I choose.
Okay. You guys have been super helpful. I have everything set up in the back yard now. I tied in some knots like you said and put the SB on top of the pad and I still have a small gap between me and the pad, but not near as much as I had before and I can actually feel the heat coming off that space blanket. So now I am working to figure out what I am still doing wrong. And again, thank you all for so much help!
a - If I tighten the pad up any more than it is, it wants to fold in half long ways. Is that normal? Oh, and yes i am using the foam pad.
b - It is still entirely possible that I am laying inside the wrong direction. With a zip up, how do you know which end is the head and which is the foot?
c - I ask because now what is happening is that the pad is mostly off to the side my shoulders are not off too if that makes any sense. You know how you lay sort of caddywampus in a hennesy? Well, the pad wants to be closer to the zipper side and my shoulders want to be away from my zipper side.
d - Not related to the SS, but which side of the tarp goes up? The slick side or the other side?
e - It could be I am hanging it too tight? I am female if that makes any difference, so maybe my weight is not causing enough sag in the actual hammock so it is not connecting with the SS?
f - Once I get the SS set up properly, would the big agnes bag be best since the underside has no loft?
Okay. Again, a million and one thanks. A million and two even.
I have a meeting today, so I didn't want to spend too much time playing around with things last night. I will spend more time tonight. However, I am on the right track for sure. I just have to figure out why it isn't touching me. Right at the center of the pad, there is still a 3 inch gap.
I forgot to answer some of the questions. Doing this on a phone is harder than on a computer because you can't see everything.
I am using the foam sell, not the bubble one.
I have the pad tied down in four places. The bridle strings on the head and foot ends and the side loops on either side.
I am mostly sure have the side zip ul explorer
I watched the HH videos you sent me the links to
I think that's it
I could actually feel the major difference between where the pad was snug against me and where it wasn't. I am feeling like I might make this work with you'alls help, so thanks!
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