Pads and Blackbirds: Single or Double?

**dsherman** · 02-27-2012, 14:15

I read on the WB website that a double layer is recommended for pads so you can slip it in between and have it stay put. But is it worth the little extra money ($15) for a double if I'm going to make an SPE anyway? Seems to me that you have to have an SPE to make pads work for you.

**RootCause** · 02-27-2012, 14:36

Originally Posted by dsherman

Seems to me that you have to have an SPE to make pads work for you.

Hi DSherman- welcome to forum! I don't know how new you are to hammocking, but a universal truth is that there is no "RIGHT" answer. Instead, you find the answer that is "right for me, as of now".

I love my DL Traveller. I've been insulating with pads for about 5 years now, no SPE needed for 3-season camping in MN. But then, my gear style tends towards "simple, bulletproof and multi-use" rather than specialized, fussy, fragile or overly-expensive-for-the-value.

So, if you haven't hung with a pad, try it. In both single- and double-layer hammocks, if you can. You may want to make an SPE and try that too, then you can decide if you truly need it, or just like it, or neither.

In the end, I believe that the more you learn, the more comfortable you'll be, and the more you'll enjoy your time in the woods. And that's the whole point of camping, isn't it?

**dsherman** · 02-28-2012, 03:26

Thanks for the welcome! I am looking forward to the trial and error stages, but I was just trying to get a general opinion. It just seems like without an SPE you're bound to get cold shoulders. I'm six feet, 150 lbs, so I tend to get chilly sleeping outside. Now I've only been a tent camper, but I figure being up off the ground is going to put me out in some cool moving air, tarp or no tarp. Does that make sense?

**gunner76** · 02-28-2012, 07:37

I have used a wallyworld waffle patterned blue pad many a night in my BB 1.7 double and found the double layers keep the pad shift to a minimum. The waffle patterned pad is about 4+ inches wider than the smooth version so it gives a bit more coverage.

**Duffy** · 02-28-2012, 10:25

I bought a BB double hoping to use the pad in between layers, but I must admit I haven't tried it yet. I got used to using my spe inside my old single layer, and it works just fine for me inside the BB. I swear I will try it between the layers next time I hang. Really.
-Duffy

**gmcttr** · 02-28-2012, 12:34

I bought a WBBB 1.7 single layer because I didn't intend to use a pad.

Then I got GG wide pad (no SPE needed) for another hammock and would like to use it in the BB on occasion...ain't gonna happen in the single layer. You can't re-position yourself laying directly on this type pad.

If I was doing it over, I would get a double layer.

**RootCause** · 02-28-2012, 13:14

Originally Posted by dsherman

Thanks for the welcome! I am looking forward to the trial and error stages, but I was just trying to get a general opinion. It just seems like without an SPE you're bound to get cold shoulders. I'm six feet, 150 lbs, so I tend to get chilly sleeping outside. Now I've only been a tent camper, but I figure being up off the ground is going to put me out in some cool moving air, tarp or no tarp. Does that make sense?

Ah, that makes some sense: broad shoulders + narrow pad = potential problem. I'm a little narrower, and tend to sleep more on my side, so stay on the pads pretty well.

There are a few ways people solve this:
1. go the underquilt route.
2. use the SPE as you mentioned
3. Use a second section of pad at the shoulders, under the long pad, in a T configuration. (I'm having trouble finding a thread with pictures in it now, it's in the archives here somewhere....)

here are a couple threads for extra reading on the topic:
http://www.hammockforums.net #44728
Just Jeff: camping warm
SGT Rock Tips

**Downhill Trucker** · 02-28-2012, 14:57

I glued "wings" to my Walmart blue ccf pad and it eliminated the cold shoulders and sides and fits well into a pad sleeve. Just took that setup to 20 degrees.

**warbonnetguy** · 02-28-2012, 22:52

you can buy ccf off the roll and have it cut as wide as you want.

a spe and a double layer accomplish basically the same thing... making the pad easier to deal with and lay on, you should try both. also keep in mind there's little weight penalty between a double 1.1 and single 1.7/1.9 which is where alot of people fall, going single 1.1 is where the real weight savings is, but that's not an option for heavier users.

**Downhill Trucker** · 02-28-2012, 23:14

Originally Posted by warbonnetguy

you can buy ccf off the roll and have it cut as wide as you want.

a spe and a double layer accomplish basically the same thing... making the pad easier to deal with and lay on, you should try both. also keep in mind there's little weight penalty between a double 1.1 and single 1.7/1.9 which is where alot of people fall, going single 1.1 is where the real weight savings is, but that's not an option for heavier users.

Where can you buy ccf by the roll?