All right, now you've gone and done it! Runnin' down the Dutch Clip? Them's fightin' words!Originally Posted by Kestrel
I like the Dutch Clip. It's easier than looping the loops, more easilier adjusable-er and stuff. So there!
All right, now you've gone and done it! Runnin' down the Dutch Clip? Them's fightin' words!
I like the Dutch Clip. It's easier than looping the loops, more easilier adjusable-er and stuff. So there!
"A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company." Gian Vincenzo Gravina (1664 - 1718)
Kestrel the original use of the dutch clip was for hammock suspension that only use webbing. ie blackbirds and many many other popular hammocks, not for tree straps which would mean that to hang the hammock one would have to larks head the entire hammock (pass it though the small eye). So while not neccesary for tree straps, but when used as it was originally intended it does exactly what JRB claims. However people now use them for both. I don't have a pair but I'm a gear .... "collecter" and I think they are a unique piece of gear for any hammocker.
Kestrel, you do realize that you are on HammockForums.net, right? Of course we're drinking the Kool-Aid!
For me...I started hammock camping because it was a cheap way to drop my pack weight fast. I couldn't afford to drop $200 or even $100 on a lightweight tent. I spent less than forty bucks for my first hammock and tarp which dropped probably four pounds of pack weight for me. So I suppose my answer is that a hammock setup on a budget is lighter than a tent setup on a budget (but probably not a tarp/bivy setup).
Well, in a lot of cases it is people who have been hard core ground sleeping back packers for most of their lives, but have found as the miseries of age and/or injury have over come them, and the back country fun is less worth the pain every day. And that they are getting out less all of the time, due to how uncomfortable it is for them to sleep on the ground. And the hammock has allowed quite a few of those to get back out there and still enjoy it. So in those cases, I don't agree with your view point in your last sentence above. ( EDIT: but as I think about it more: if they are " buying into the hype just to have a hobby to follow ", that's all right too isn't it? )
You make some very good points that apply to every interest group I have ever been a part of. People do love their hobbies and are forever scheming how to improve their pursuit of those hobbies. And the fantasy or the chase is often better than what you accomplish from that chase. Which is why I am often found here pointing out that while all of the different suspension gee haws I have tried here are great and faster and more convenient, on the other hand there is nothing wrong with what I started with, the HH huggers and figure 8 lashing. I am usually not in a stop watch timed race to see how fast I can get set up once I get to camp. ( Note the word "usually"I'm also an avid motorcyclist, and have read hundreds of posts from folks looking to 'upgrade' their experience, by purchasing a newer or different model motorcycling, adding countless aftermarket parts, and so on. The user assumes that the purchasing or changes will somehow revolutionize their experience, but the reality is that in many respects, the 'hunt' and the anticipation were mentally more satisfying than the reality. Sure, the new bike was fun for a while, but in the end, the motorcycling experience wasn't all that dissimilar from what they had before. The fantasy that people project is better than the reality of the actual thing.) But on the other other hand, if people are having fun coming up with these tweaks and even if they just think it is improving their hammock and backpacking experience, then who the heck cares? Do you really care, does it bother you? Kind of seems to.
OK, now "thread injector" seems to bother you. And you are welcome to be bothered. But I don't think it is going to do you any good other than maybe enjoying being bothered. Because I think people here have a good time and get some laughs out of the long running joke of saying "thread injector", often followed with some Tim Allen style Gorilla macho grunts. Or referring to sleeping on the ground as blasphemy. I don't think they are going to take your advice to "man up", they will just continue to say "thread injector". But, you are free to say "sewing machine", I don't think any one will be offended. ( BTW, I use neither a sewing machine nor a thread injector, guess I'm not man enough. They scare me!)
There seems to be a sort of 'this is what the cool kids are doing, so I will do it too' mentality. Be it ways of speaking or naming things (thread injector? Just man up and say sewing machine already), or even in products...
Yep, we knew that. We all knew that.The Dutch Clip, for example.. .........................
JRB describes the clip as 'replacing the carabiner', but there was never a need for a carbiner or a clip in the first place. If you've got a loop in the end of a piece of webbing, simply pass the other end through it.
Well Kestrel, I have done it both ways ( biner only, no Dutch Clips yet, but maybe someday if I feel like it), and I am liable to do it any number of ways next time out. But I can tell you one thing, IMO: using a biner on say a cinch buckle webbing suspension is a lot faster and more convenient than just using the loop. If you want to cut a few minutes off of set up time after an all day hike, and you can stand another couple of ozs of hardware(personal choice) or already have some biners with you for other uses--- this is one good way to do it. Getting the webbing around a fat tree with low branches poking you in the face while threading through the loop and then back through the cinch buckle, on both ends, then undoing it all and repeating the next day, is just no where near as convenient. Not to say I might not choose to do it that way next time out, because I usually have some time to spare. But when I just choose to use my WBBB cinch buckle suspension with biners, it's not so much because I want to be one of the cool kids and in the "in" crowd, even though I really, really do want that so bad. It's more because it is easier and more convenient, and sometimes I am willing to carry a couple of extra oz for that, or even less with a Dutch Clip. Especially since I am down from 50+ lbs to 15-30, I often feel I can have an extra oz or 4 when I feel like it. Or even an extra pound or two for increased comfort and convenience of set up in a hammock.It seems like a solution for a problem that never existed. Yet it gets constant recommendations because it's one of the 'in-crowd' accepted items.
Oh I bet your account will survive the need to openly say such things, as long as things remain civil and clean. But I do wonder what is with the need to arrive here and start in with such things in the first place? I apologize in advance if I am reading you wrong, but you seem to have arrived here with a critical and negative attitude. You seem to have a need to correct us of our excesses and our love of hammock camping. Am I reading you wrong? If not, what is the point of even joining the group?There are a lot of other threads around (and I don't want to point out examples and call anybody out, of course) where folks seem pat each other on the back and high five simply because they're both using a hammock.
It just all seems a bit fanatical to me... God knows if this post (or my user account) will survive with all of my 'heretical' speech, but I'd rather just openly say such things.
Waiter, 1 qt. of Kool-aid, please, I just can't get enough! You know, I would expect to find climbing fanatics at a climbing site, gun fanatics at a site dedicated to firearms, sex fanatics at most porn sites. No surprise that you find lots of ex-tent/ground dwelling folks ( sometimes 20 or 30 years of ground dwelling) who are really Gung Ho on the concept of hammock camping. And how to do that as light as possible without giving up too much comfort and convenience. I don't know what to tell you. I don't think you are going to change their minds.I've had a couple of very enjoyable nights in a hammock, and they allow me to stay overnight in rugged terrain where tent site selection would be very difficult. I'm sold on the concept, but it seems like a lot of posters around here have had a little bit too much of the Kool-Aid, if you will.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 04-28-2012 at 16:05.
There is literally thousands of variants to different hammock and tent setups. One could go on for days and months discussing it, but in the end...
HYOH.
Shnick
...Levitate me
- Pixies
Sure my hammock set up is not as light as you can go with a top line ultralight tent, or spartan tent/tarp set up, but you can get **** close, and stay pretty cheap getting there, within reason, as compared to one of those nice Shire tents or others in the same price ranges.
You can get lighter, with perhaps just a pad and a tarp, but you're still on the ground right!
And as far as being "dead in the water" above tree line, where hammocks are concerned, some kits are, some certainly are not. 1. Hang your own hang.
Signature suspended
Thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, Dutch Clip, Dutch Clip, whoopie sling.
Lighten up, Francis.
"A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company." Gian Vincenzo Gravina (1664 - 1718)
What, no Textile Impalers ?Thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, thread injector, Dutch Clip, Dutch Clip, whoopie sling.
I am still 18 but with 52 years of experience !
Amen.Well, in a lot of cases it is people who have been hard core ground sleeping back packers for most of their lives, but have found as the miseries of age and/or injury have over come them, and the back country fun is less worth the pain every day. And that they are getting out less all of the time, due to how uncomfortable it is for them to sleep on the ground. And the hammock has allowed quite a few of those to get back out there and still enjoy it. So in those cases, I don't agree with your view point in your last sentence above. ( EDIT: but as I think about it more: if they are " buying into the hype just to have a hobby to follow ", that's all right too isn't it? )
You make some very good points that apply to every interest group I have ever been a part of. People do love their hobbies and are forever scheming how to improve their pursuit of those hobbies. And the fantasy or the chase is often better than what you accomplish from that chase. Which is why I am often found here pointing out that while all of the different suspension gee haws I have tried here are great and faster and more convenient, on the other hand there is nothing wrong with what I started with, the HH huggers and figure 8 lashing. I am usually not in a stop watch timed race to see how fast I can get set up once I get to camp. ( Note the word "usually"
OK, now "thread injector" seems to bother you. And you are welcome to be bothered. But I don't think it is going to do you any good other than maybe enjoying being bothered. Because I think people here have a good time and get some laughs out of the long running joke of saying "thread injector", often followed with some Tim Allen style Gorilla macho grunts. Or referring to sleeping on the ground as blasphemy. I don't think they are going to take your advice to "man up", they will just continue to say "thread injector". But, you are free to say "sewing machine", I don't think any one will be offended. ( BTW, I use neither a sewing machine nor a thread injector, guess I'm not man enough. They scare me!)
Yep, we knew that. We all knew that.
Well Kestrel, I have done it both ways ( biner only, no Dutch Clips yet, but maybe someday if I feel like it), and I am liable to do it any number of ways next time out. But I can tell you one thing, IMO: using a biner on say a cinch buckle webbing suspension is a lot faster and more convenient than just using the loop. If you want to cut a few minutes off of set up time after an all day hike, and you can stand another couple of ozs of hardware(personal choice) or already have some biners with you for other uses--- this is one good way to do it. Getting the webbing around a fat tree with low branches poking you in the face while threading through the loop and then back through the cinch buckle, on both ends, then undoing it all and repeating the next day, is just no where near as convenient. Not to say I might not choose to do it that way next time out, because I usually have some time to spare. But when I just choose to use my WBBB cinch buckle suspension with biners, it's not so much because I want to be one of the cool kids and in the "in" crowd, even though I really, really do want that so bad. It's more because it is easier and more convenient, and sometimes I am willing to carry a couple of extra oz for that, or even less with a Dutch Clip. Especially since I am down from 50+ lbs to 15-30, I often feel I can have an extra oz or 4 when I feel like it. Or even an extra pound or two for increased comfort and convenience of set up in a hammock.
Oh I bet your account will survive the need to openly say such things, as long as things remain civil and clean. But I do wonder what is with the need to arrive here and start in with such things in the first place? I apologize in advance if I am reading you wrong, but you seem to have arrived here with a critical and negative attitude. You seem to have a need to correct us of our excesses and our love of hammock camping. Am I reading you wrong? If not, what is the point of even joining the group?
Waiter, 1 qt. of Kool-aid, please, I just can't get enough! You know, I would expect to find climbing fanatics at a climbing site, gun fanatics at a site dedicated to firearms, sex fanatics at most porn sites. No surprise that you find lots of ex-tent/ground dwelling folks ( sometimes 20 or 30 years of ground dwelling) who are really Gung Ho on the concept of hammock camping. And how to do that as light as possible without giving up too much comfort and convenience. I don't know what to tell you. I don't think you are going to change their minds.
And I am proudly part of the group that will drink the Kool-aid........pass the pitcher!!
Just sayin'
"Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate authority, and don't interfere."- RONALD REAGAN
"There is new life in the soil for every man. There is healing in the trees for tired minds and for our overburdened spirits, there is strength in the hills, if only we will lift up our eyes. Remember that nature is your great restorer." - CALVIN COOLIDGE
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