what am I missing ?

[CatSplat]

I know what you mean though. My first post on here I was looking for a pack cover for my large pack. Got one answer and then a hundred sarcastic comments that got the post shut down in a couple of hours. Some say HYOH, but what they mean is, Hike As I Hike.

What, this thread?

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=40579

Where there were a few posts joking about how large your 105L pack is, and the rest were legitimate suggestions, including an offer to send you a matching cover for free?

[NCPatrick]

Let's not rehash old threads in this one please.

[Hulk]

If your ok with a 40 to 60 lb load then go for it.

I do have to say gram weenie's do come across with some strong opinions, but don't take it as being condescending.

I've often heard people it's easier and cheaper to shave 10lbs of the mid section than the pack. Not for me. I bicycle 15 to 20 miles per day, I've been on a calorie restricted diet for way too long. Yet i'm 5'10 and weigh 280 lbs. I also have asthma and it's exercise induced. It's the asthma that has driven me to obsess about pack weight. My pack weight is low enough now i just carry my backpacking set up for day hikes now even if i have no intention of staying over night. For me 3lbs could be the difference between having an asthma attack and not having an asthma attack. I used to struggle with 5 miles a day while back packing. Shaving pack weight has allowed this fat guy who can't breath to cover 20 miles per day with little effort.
Yea, i'm fanatical about shaving pack weight....for good reason.

[Cannibal]

I consider the pack-weight debate little different from the hammock vs ground debate.

Folks that discover hammocks tend to get a little evangelical about it for a while. I know, I was one of them. It is just such a better way to sleep, once you've embraced it, and it's difficult to not try to convince others to do the same. Some folks simply go over the line with it and mock others for not doing what they do. I think the base intentions are noble, but the delivery becomes hostile at times.

Lightweight gear is an extension of the same argument. Once you've hiked with a low (relative) pack-weight, it's almost painful to watch someone else lug around a heavy pack. You know first-hand how much more difficult it makes things. However, the person carrying the heavier pack doesn't view their pack-weight as a burden because they don't have the same perspective.

I really do believe it begins with good intentions, but we all have heard about what path good intentions put one on. Hopefully, this thread will be a good reminder for the ULs and SULs among us to think about how they say what they want to say. I was, at one time, one of the people that didn't get where all the ULers were coming from with their obsession for lighter gear. I still think some of them obsess too much about it, but I certainly understand why they do now.

As far as having the money to spend on lightweight gear, that's simply a matter of priorities. If having that daily, or more, cup of $5 coffee is more important to a hiker than his/her gear, then sure the gear is overpriced. If that money is instead saved for gear, well then that hiker has $1,800+ a year to spend on lightweight gear. It's just a choice about how money is spent. Not all lightweighters are rich. Some are just very thrifty about how they chose to spend their money. For them, their choice is lightweight gear and many only make one 'large' purchase a year. It's just that they have spent years working on their weight. I've been in the game for 5 years and still don't have everything I want in terms of lightweight gear. Course, I do enjoy a good cup of coffee from time to time too. No cream or sugar though, just a dash of whiskey is good by me.

[mountain_man_mike]

HYOH and all that stuff

As RamblinRev said, hike your own hike.

Not all of us have bottomless wallets (I sure don't), but there's something to be said for folks wanting to shave weight.

I've hiked 16+ mile days with 40+ pounds on me. It was doable, but tough. With 30 lbs on my back, I found it much more comfortable. I'd imagine if I was to get down to 20 lbs, it would be even more so.

There's a sliding scale of requirements: weight, durability, functionality, and price. I find that I err on the side of durability, functionality, and price. Which is why I'm at ~28 lbs for a three-day trip. If I had more funds, I could go lower on weight. If I wasn't quite so hard on my gear, I could go lower on weight. If I was willing to accept a lower level of comfort, I could go lower on weight.

Since I'm not willing to compromise with any of those, I remain at the weight I am. It's comfortable enough for me to carry over the distances I prefer, at my current body weight and general level of fitness. It might not be for everyone.

Again, HYOH, CYOC, PYOB, etc. Have fun out there, and don't let anyone tell you that There is Only One True Way to enjoy the outdoors.

^What he said, who cares what anyone else thinks...

+1 to these sentiments. Your hike is exactly that... YOUR hike. What equpiment you use for that hike and how you fill your pack is ultimately on your back so not many (if any at all) here will be offended by how you accomplish that. However, many do care in terms of supporting your efforts for a different twist on things and willingly offer advice on how to accomplish that. You can evaluate the information folks share with you and decide to run with it, modify it or flush it entirely and that's the appeal of this forum... people sharing thoughts in a civilized manner so we can all enjoy the outdoors by hiking our own hikes and hanging our own hangs.

That's my 2 cents... which with another $6.98 will get you a carmel frapp, half caf., moccachino (or something similar).

[Camobob]

I guess I just got alittle miffed about someone telling me something in a pm "thats too heavy and you should get one of these" . I only use a roller pack and I do it in some pretty hairy terrain and my roughly 40 lb pack only weighs about 15-20 on my hips. I have a poorly repaired ankle and a torn rotator cuff that dosent like a lot of weight on it so rolling is my only option for now. Thanks for not flaming me, Im really not a bad guy well at least not after my morning coffee

[Catavarie]

I'm certainly in the hike your on hike and carry your own load group. My first time out I carried a 40lb pack for an overnight. A year later I'm down to 30 lbs. I'm able to carry more weight, but I prefer to carry less because I'm lazy
I don't have a lot of discretionary funds but I do have a good bit of free time, so I make what gear I can when I can afford the materials. I just got in the silnylon to make myself a new lighter tarp for 3 season which will drop my pack weight another pound. I don't say this to brag, just to show how I'm working on dropping my pack weight and why.

[old4hats]

I too get a bit intimidated by the constant push for lighter gear, but when all is said and done, this constant push to minimize weight does do me some good. It points out to me some areas where I can save weight and space without doing without things I need or just want. To be sure, leading edge UL gear is pricey, but as it evolves lighter and lighter, it leaves some of "yesterday's" UL gear available at more affordable prices and so helps me to lighten my load without spending the whole bank. Just my $0.02.

[BillyBob58]

I guess I just got alittle miffed about someone telling me something in a pm "thats too heavy and you should get one of these" . I only use a roller pack and I do it in some pretty hairy terrain and my roughly 40 lb pack only weighs about 15-20 on my hips. I have a poorly repaired ankle and a torn rotator cuff that dosent like a lot of weight on it so rolling is my only option for now. Thanks for not flaming me, Im really not a bad guy well at least not after my morning coffee

A roller pack, cool! Those have always looked fascinating to me. And, I really hate to leave behind a lot of my fun toys and helpful accessories on the trail. Usually not as bad as I hate carrying them on my back, but still, I like having a lot of that stuff with me.

And then then there is the fact of all the money already spent over the years on high quality and durable stuff, and sometimes I just hate to spend more money on the sometimes fragile UL or SUL stuff. ( But I often do anyway ) But something like a roller pack would allow me to go back a step or two as far as weight and bulk and still not have to suffer so much, I guess. Kind of like the benefit of a pulk in winter.

But I guess until I get around to buying one of those roller packs and giving it a try, I am grateful that I have gotten even my week long fairly cold weather loads down to 30 or 35 lbs, maybe even 25 if not too many days and not too cold. Heck, some trips I even end up below 20. I can still remember one mountaineering trip when I was actually carrying 75 lbs, just for myself plus my share of group gear. That was brutal even to my 36 year old self. My 63 year old self would not even get out of the parking lot with such a load! All trips after that I never carried more than 50-55 lbs, and pretty soon was down to 45 lbs for week long trips in the Rockies. Still, never pushing past 35 lbs now worst case scenario- and usually a lot less- is delightful. Much easier on my old body.

Hey, as for your PM: it might have been well intentioned. But sometimes things come across wrong on the internet. Their plan might have just been to help you out with their advice, but sometimes things come across wrong. Course, might have been a rude horses behind also. But maybe not. Most of us here just want to help a fellow out, and of course it goes without saying that my way is the best way to get 'er done!

[Ramblinrev]

Their plan might have just been to help you out with their advice, but sometimes things come across wrong.

I'm no gram weenie by any stretch of the imagination but I do rather enjoy hearing about the UL/SUL toys on the market. In some cases I shake my head in disbelief. In others I find out about a new toy I could use, since I don't like my current POS in the first place.

But then I've always been an "eat the meat/spit out the bone" kind of guy anyway.