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  1. #1
    New Member Benny's Avatar
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    Amsteel Daisy Chain

    I've tried whoopie slings & while they work I'd prefer something quicker & easier like the Python Straps from Kammock.

    Given that the Amsteel is so strong has anyone made an attempt at making a daisy chain suspension system with it?

    I've done up a quick trial which hanging weighted out the back as we speak but I'm far from a splicing guru.

    This is what I've done- fold length roughly in half & make a fixed loop. Rather than 2 splices & bury I done 4 splices.
    - Leave approx 15" gap & do 4 splices. The 20" is the part that wraps around the tree. You can add tree protection under the line.
    - Leave approx 3" gap & do 4 splices. The 3" gap is the hole you clip into.
    - Reapeat for length of Amsteel.
    - As I've only done a short trial length I didn't bother finishing neatly but I imagine it could be done by burying the short length then a tail splice on the long length.

    If you can see this failing, better yet if you can think of a better way let me know.

    The trial is currently in a vertical hang with 70kg weight. 3hrs in & looking good.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mouseskowitz's Avatar
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    I'm having a hard time picturing what you're talking about. Any chance of posting some pics?

  3. #3
    New Member Benny's Avatar
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    Ha, I was confused just typing it & I've seen what I'm talking about. I'll try get some up this arvo.

    I went out added my body weight to it a couple of times for 10secs & it didn't budge.

  4. #4
    Senior Member fallkniven's Avatar
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    I use the same thing sort of for my Grand Trunk UL. I replaced the rope and S-hooks with 7/64 amsteel and whoopie hooks. Then I use a length of amsteel, fold it in half, and make a square knot all of the way down about every 6 inches. It does the same thing as a daisy chain. I just wrap around the tree and through the first loop, then hook the hammock on the appropriate knot. It's a real simple way rather than hours of splicing. Could take a picture tomorrow if wanted.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mouseskowitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fallkniven View Post
    I use the same thing sort of for my Grand Trunk UL. I replaced the rope and S-hooks with 7/64 amsteel and whoopie hooks. Then I use a length of amsteel, fold it in half, and make a square knot all of the way down about every 6 inches. It does the same thing as a daisy chain. I just wrap around the tree and through the first loop, then hook the hammock on the appropriate knot. It's a real simple way rather than hours of splicing. Could take a picture tomorrow if wanted.
    The question I would have is strength of spicing vs knots. I'm not sure what type of splice Benny is using and its % strength. This issue with knots and amsteel is that you need a 8:1 bend radius to retain original strength and a square knot comes no where close to that.

    Obviously knots don't degrade amsteel to the point of failure for our applications, at least I haven't run into any talk about it yet. But I'm just thinking the margin of safety isn't anything close to what most people would assume it is. I haven't been able to find any rigorous testing data on this subject as the groups that tend to testing (climbers and such) just say don't tie knots. So, all I have to go on is anecdotal accounts of logger and such tying knots and having failure as low as 30% of rated strength.

  6. #6
    Senior Member oldgringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouseskowitz View Post
    The question I would have is strength of spicing vs knots. I'm not sure what type of splice Benny is using and its % strength. This issue with knots and amsteel is that you need a 8:1 bend radius to retain original strength and a square knot comes no where close to that.

    Obviously knots don't degrade amsteel to the point of failure for our applications, at least I haven't run into any talk about it yet. But I'm just thinking the margin of safety isn't anything close to what most people would assume it is. I haven't been able to find any rigorous testing data on this subject as the groups that tend to testing (climbers and such) just say don't tie knots. So, all I have to go on is anecdotal accounts of logger and such tying knots and having failure as low as 30% of rated strength.
    Back before we were told it wasn't the best way to get there, we made continuous loops with Amsteel using double and triple fisherman's bends. To the best of my knowledge, Warbonnet still does. No failures that I'm aware of.
    Dave

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Zigerot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouseskowitz View Post
    The question I would have is strength of spicing vs knots. I'm not sure what type of splice Benny is using and its % strength. This issue with knots and amsteel is that you need a 8:1 bend radius to retain original strength and a square knot comes no where close to that.

    Obviously knots don't degrade amsteel to the point of failure for our applications, at least I haven't run into any talk about it yet. But I'm just thinking the margin of safety isn't anything close to what most people would assume it is. I haven't been able to find any rigorous testing data on this subject as the groups that tend to testing (climbers and such) just say don't tie knots. So, all I have to go on is anecdotal accounts of logger and such tying knots and having failure as low as 30% of rated strength.

    Almost all knots will degrade your rating by 50 percent. Splicing will only degrade 20 percent. But WOW is splicing overkill in this situation. Amsteel is much stronger then we puny humans, even after we multiply the load Ina suspension. For daisy chains like,this I would go with alpine Butterflys

    http://www.animatedknots.com/alpineb...matedknots.com

    They are easy to tie and untie and they wont shift when you apply load.

  8. #8
    Senior Member MDSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigerot View Post
    Almost all knots will degrade your rating by 50 percent. Splicing will only degrade 20 percent. But WOW is splicing overkill in this situation. Amsteel is much stronger then we puny humans, even after we multiply the load Ina suspension. For daisy chains like,this I would go with alpine Butterflys

    http://www.animatedknots.com/alpineb...matedknots.com

    They are easy to tie and untie and they wont shift when you apply load.
    That would work!

    .
    Mike

    Learn to survive and thrive in any situation, for you never know what might happen. Love family and friends passionately. Suffer no fool. Know your purpose in life and follow it with all your heart.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigerot View Post
    For daisy chains like,this I would go with alpine Butterflys

    http://www.animatedknots.com/alpineb...matedknots.com

    They are easy to tie and untie and they wont shift when you apply load.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mouseskowitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigerot View Post
    Almost all knots will degrade your rating by 50 percent. Splicing will only degrade 20 percent. But WOW is splicing overkill in this situation. Amsteel is much stronger then we puny humans, even after we multiply the load Ina suspension. For daisy chains like,this I would go with alpine Butterflys

    http://www.animatedknots.com/alpineb...matedknots.com

    They are easy to tie and untie and they wont shift when you apply load.
    The alpine butterfly is a great knot but I'm guessing you'd only have ~33% of your original strength in amsteel. I'm basing that off of figure 8s and bowlines being in that neighborhood. Take a look at the charts on p17 (p22 of the pdf) of this paper that compare convention rope to amsteel with knots. Amsteel needs a minimum of a 8:1 ratio on bends with 10:1 being recommended. I believe with nylon it's only 3:1.

    There is also data in there about different types of slices. Keep in mind that Samson rates Amsteel with an eye splice, hence the reason it retains 100% of the rated strength.

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